Francis Chan sits down with theologian and apologist Gavin Ortlund (truthunites.org) for a vulnerable, wide-ranging conversation about communion, church unity, and what it means to love other Christians in a fractured age. Francis shares his own journey wrestling with the Eucharist, reading the church fathers, engaging Roman Catholic and Orthodox perspectives, and discovering the “real presence” within a Protestant framework. Gavin explains why he remains gratefully Protestant and how he understands the richness of the Lord’s Supper and church history.

Together, they talk honestly about the harsh tone of much online “discernment” content, the temptation to chase clicks by attacking other believers, and the deep grief they both feel over division in the body of Christ. Francis opens up about this new season of life and ministry, sensing a renewed childlike faith, a burden to guard and walk with younger leaders, and a longing to see gospel-centered unity rooted in truth and shaped by the love of God.

If you’ve ever wrestled with questions about the Lord’s Supper, Protestant vs. Catholic/Orthodox claims, or how to contend for truth without losing love, this conversation will both challenge and encourage you to fix your eyes on Jesus and pursue a unity that flows from the gospel itself.