Voxology

This episode, Mike, Tim, and Suzie talk with pastor and author John Mark Comer about how his spiritual life has shifted from anxious striving toward the gentleness and peace of Christ. Comer explains how solitude and community, trusted relationships, and contemplative prayer can help people experience God’s love and grow without turning spiritual practices into self-improvement projects. Comer describes a change from pursuing God with anxious, high-achieving intensity toward a gentler, humbler, more peaceful way of being with God. Drawing on The Holy Longing and early Christian thought, he discusses mellowing and apatheia, or freedom from disordered passions, while reframing passion as willingness to suffer for Christ. Spiritual disciplines can open people to grace, but they are not techniques for controlling or engineering personal transformation. Comer frames grace as God’s empowering presence and discipleship as staying relationally connected to God, not earning spiritual progress. He describes the inner critic and the gradual work of learning to recognize its voice without letting it dominate, through quiet prayer and trusted community. A discipleship band uses five questions about celebration, trouble, God’s guidance, confession, and what a person wants to keep secret; vulnerability grows as trust develops. Chapters 00:00 Introduction 07:00 Interview: A reunion and a question about spiritual growth 11:20 From anxious striving toward the gentleness of Christ 15:15 Mellowing, apatheia, and a different meaning of passion 21:25 Why spiritual disciplines cannot be life-hacked 27:08 Grace as God’s empowering presence 30:37 Quiet prayer, community, and the inner critic 34:20 Confession, secrets, and trusted discipleship bands 41:33 What Into the Quiet is really about 46:27 Contemplation and experiencing union with God 49:24 Entering solitude and community safely 52:24 The secure base: growing trust step by step 58:10 Influences, friendship, and the book’s lasting invitation As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! Etsy Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

Today, Mike, Suzie, and Tim unpack Matthew 23:23 and Jesus’ warning about straining out gnats while swallowing camels. They connect biblical interpretation to the fruit a community produces, arguing that justice, mercy, and faithfulness matter more than performative attention to minor rules. Mike distinguishes destination theology, which sorts people into orthodox or unorthodox, from journey theology, which invites people toward Jesus and deeper understanding along the way. The hosts argue that sound biblical interpretation should produce a community shaped like Jesus, marked by justice, mercy, and faithfulness. Mike explains Matthew 23:23: meticulous tithing of mint, dill, and cumin misses the heavier obligations of justice, mercy, and faithfulness when those are neglected. The discussion traces biblical tithing to shared meals, support for Levites, care for the poor, gratitude, and the belief that food and life are gifts. Jesus’ image of straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel contrasts fastidious personal piety with neglect of weightier communal responsibilities. Tim describes his small church supporting their community and reflects on a student encountering Christianity with little prior context. Suzie notes that repentance requires costly work toward people harmed, not only public claims of forgiveness or restoration. The hosts reflect on gardening, food, and a Mary Oliver poem as reminders to approach a broken world with gratitude, gentleness, and care. Mary Oliver: “It is a serious thing just to be alive on this fresh morning in the broken world” Chapters: 00:00 Peek and Pit: music, voting, repairs, and a church serving its city 11:07 Tennessee politics, Christian hypocrisy, and podcast housekeeping 19:06 Destination theology versus a journey toward Jesus 22:22 Biblical interpretation measured by community fruit 31:13 Matthew 23:23 and the warning against straining out gnats 33:23 Why biblical tithing involved meals, gratitude, and care for the poor 38:00 Light and heavy commandments: prioritizing justice, mercy, and faithfulness 49:21 Personal piety versus public responsibility 53:17 Gentleness, repentance, and the fruit of Christian witness 59:17 Gardening, gratitude, and finding a posture of hope 01:03:08 Halloween, holidays, and a lighter sign-off As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to hello@:.com, and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! https://www.etsy.com/shop/VOXOLOGY?ref=shop_sugg_market Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

Mike, Suzie, and Tim discuss the harm caused when fallen pastors turn repentance into a public product, then explore how spiritual abuse can distort biblical interpretation. They consider Jesus as the key to reading Scripture, and share postures that make room for humility, curiosity, hope, and uncertainty.The hosts discuss how spiritual abusers can use Scripture to control, exclude, shame, and equate their own opinions with God’s word. Mike argues that Jesus is the “key to knowledge”: the New Testament presents him as essential to understanding the full meaning of Torah and the prophets. Suzie affirms the value of historical and cultural context, and says she has grown more comfortable with not knowing everything about God.Tim compares growing faith to childhood imagination, suggesting that uncertainty can invite wonder rather than become a stumbling block. Mike reframes certainty as relational faithfulness expressed through action, not simply intellectual confidence.The hosts suggest approaching Scripture with humility, curiosity, hope, gentleness, and openness to learning from other people and communities. Timestamps 00:00 - Halloween plans and the episode’s turn to spiritual abuse 04:23 - Why a book about a pastor’s fall and repentance raises concerns 06:39 - Repentance, restoration, and caring for those who were harmed 11:11 - Carl Lentz, celebrity ministry, and systemic failures 18:01 - The “key to knowledge” and Jesus’ critique of religious leaders 21:18 - How spiritual abuse distorts Scripture 23:12 - Reading Torah and the prophets through Jesus 29:22 - Wrestling with difficult Old Testament portrayals of God 30:38 - Ambiguity, maturity, and learning to live with complexity 36:09 - What the Old Testament reveals about God and God’s people 38:33 - Childhood imagination, faith, and wonder 40:30 - Certainty as relational trust expressed in action 44:42 - Humility, curiosity, and hope as ways to approach Scripture 51:22 - Gentleness, joyful conviction, and learning across differences 54:28 - Agency, unanswered questions, and the value of wrestling 56:09 - Aslan, Lucy, and how Jesus grows larger as we grow As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! https://www.etsy.com/shop/VOXOLOGY?ref=shop_sugg_market Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

The Bible can open the kingdom—or slam the door shut. In this episode, Mike, Tim, and Suzie explore Jesus’ warning to religious leaders who use Scripture to exclude, shame, and control, and ask why that warning still feels so relevant today. Looking at Matthew 23 and Luke 11, they unpack how the Pharisees are accused of rejecting Jesus, twisting Torah, and using religious authority to reinforce their own righteousness. The conversation connects those ancient warnings to spiritual abuse, political anger, online outrage, and the ways faith can be used either to bring people closer to God or push them away. Together, they consider what it means to “nullify” Scripture, how to recognize when a teacher is clarifying its message or obscuring it, and why lament, community, and peacemaking matter in a culture overwhelmed by grief and conflict. At the heart of the discussion is one searching question: Is our use of the Bible shaped by Jesus’ way of mercy—or by coercion and shame? Timestamps 00:00 - Fall break check-in and podcast banter 00:54 - Family trip to Columbus and Dave & Buster’s 02:19 - 30A, post-hurricane tourism, and fall break 03:53 - Hannah calls in after an eight-mile run 05:31 - Tim’s fall break, the Dodgers, and the Guardians 06:51 - The kindness mob story 09:34 - How positive and negative social media cascades spread 10:27 - Listener feedback about current events and Scripture 13:28 - A school shooting and the need to lament 15:23 - Making space for communal grief and prayer 19:35 - The search for peace 21:33 - Matthew 23 and shutting the kingdom door 23:59 - The “key to knowledge” in Luke 25:26 - Three ways the Pharisees closed the door 27:22 - The healing of the blind and mute man 28:44 - Jesus’ power, the Pharisees’ accusation, and blasphemy against the Spirit 31:59 - Ceremonial washing and the tradition of the elders 34:21 - Corban and honoring parents 36:36 - The sinful woman in Luke 7: judgment and mercy 38:29 - The woman caught in adultery 40:45 - Spiritual abuse and distorted readings of Scripture 44:30 - Susie on blocking others from a kingdom one has not entered 45:57 - Leaders preaching against what they have not faced in themselves 48:15 - Peacemaking, shalom, and responding to chaos 50:06 - Jesus, shame, and writing in the dust 51:35 - Mercy, wrath, and the death penalty debate 53:16 - The wounds teachers bring to their interpretation of Scripture 54:34 - Filters, theological posture, and interpretation 57:48 - Jesus clarifies Torah rather than obscuring it 58:18 - The “key to knowledge” and a cruciform way of reading the Bible 60:01 - Closing thanks and the Shema As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! Etsy Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

Today, Mike, Tim and Suzie wrestle with two difficult questions: How should Christians respond to public cruelty and political turmoil? And how can church leaders avoid using power to heal their own wounds? The conversation moves from the death penalty and immigration enforcement to Jesus’ teaching on peace, then turns to humility, vulnerability, and spiritual abuse. They consider why “turn the other cheek” is not a call to passivity, how anger might become fuel for healing rather than outrage, and why local community matters for discernment and action. The conversation also examines the temptations of spiritual leadership: status, performance, and the difference between transparency and real vulnerability. Chapters 00:00 Fall break banter and hurricane jokes 04:18 The death penalty and public execution 06:22 A son’s reaction to televised violence 08:04 Burnout and the strain of constant political vigilance 09:51 Jesus, peace, and the tension between nonviolence and resistance 13:17 Turning the other cheek as creative goodness, not passivity 15:15 Local community and faithful action 17:07 Why political solutions aren’t the whole answer 19:40 The limits of election-cycle thinking 21:25 Staying local amid overwhelming news 22:26 Anger, the internet, and protecting your attention 32:34 Setting boundaries around news and social media 36:04 The conversation turns to spiritually abusive leadership 36:59 Siblingship instead of status and privilege 38:27 Refusing social prestige and choosing low honor 39:25 Hiddenness and performative piety 40:22 Paul as a model of taking the lowest place 43:45 The practice of showing genuine need 44:44 Three steps toward becoming like the Pharisees 47:05 Judgment, discernment, and empathy 48:37 When humility becomes a performance 51:07 Transparency versus real vulnerability 55:45 Wounds, motives, and church leadership 59:52 Preparing to teach without making the platform the center 64:17 Suzie on pressure, trust, and teaching 70:48 How to discern whose wounds a leader is trying to heal As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to [email protected], and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! Etsy Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy