Conscious Chatter

In Episode 339, Kestrel welcomes Beth Jensen, the Chief Impact Officer at Textile Exchange, to the show. Leading the organization's efforts to achieve beneficial climate and nature impacts, Beth oversees key functions at Textile Exchange including impact data and Life Cycle Assessment studies; impact tools and reporting mechanisms; reports and research; fundraising; and public affairs/policy. "A big part of vulnerability is really admitting that you don't have all the answers. So in sustainability, in fashion, apparel, and textile space, this is just the way we have to operate. If you said you had all the answers, you wouldn't be taken seriously in this space … What you present as data might change the next time you present it because you have new and better information. You just have to be able to work in the gray and really take the best available information and make informed decisions based on that information." -Beth THEME — DATA & FASHION: METHODS & ACCESS Before we dive in, I want to take a moment to remind us all that FASHION IS POLITICAL. Whenever a big politically-charged moment arises in the U.S., there is this narrative I see creeping around that expects fashion (brands, designers, creators, etc) to stay silent on quote unquote political issues – that fashion should stay in its so-called lane, detached from the world around it. Here's the thing – FASHION IS POLITICAL. It always has been and it always will be. It doesn't exist in its own little vacuum. If you care about the fashion industry, and its impact on people and the planet, it's imminent to pay attention and engage in so-called politics, because it's entirely interconnected. Just to mention a few of these significant overlaps – The origins of the fashion industry in the United States – cotton grown by Black enslaved folks who were forced to immigrate – is political. The way clothing supply chains operate – predominantly spread across the Global South where our clothes are made by mostly women of color, who are often paid less than a living wage – is political. How certain materials permeate the fashion industry – fossil fuel-derived fibers AKA plastic. While other natural fibers were historically made illegal to grow AKA hemp – is political. The largest garment manufacturing city in the U.S. is Los Angeles, employing over 46,000 garment workers, most of whom are immigrant women from Mexico and Central America. L.A. is the wage theft capital of the U.S., with the average hourly wage being $5.85 (Labor Violations In The LA Garment Industry, Garment Worker Center, 2020) The institutionalized violent origins of ICE as well as the continued horrific acts they have made toward immigrants and nonimmigrants, fellow members of our communities – is political. As Faherty called it in their recent IG post – systemic inhumanity affects us all – our families, friends, colleagues, neighbors and communities, and that is political. If you try to separate fashion from politics, clothing from humans, it's impossible. Clothing is made by people who are integral members of our communities and valued creatives along the supply chain. We must advocate for our fellow community members and the safety of our neighbors. This is the second episode is a 2-part series dedicated to DATA IN FASHION. While many of you may already have an understanding of these elements, I think they are important to reframe and contextualize the following conversation. The fashion industry and the so-called sustainable fashion space has a concerning history with data. The so-called stat – fashion is the 2nd largest polluter globally, second only to oil – unfortunately spread like wildfire before it was found to be unsubstantiated – in 2017, journalist Alden Wicker brought this to light in an article on Racked, and the NY Times did a deep dive into it the following year, calling it the "biggest fake news in fashion". It's clear that the fashion industry has a massive impact on the earth and its inhabitants – it's an industry that not only thrives with models of overproduction and waste, it also prioritizes synthetic fossil fuel-derived materials like polyester. But, considering how long this inaccurate claim was utilized by the sustainability and fashion realm (to note, I still see it used today and often have to send articles to folks to remind them that it was never substantiated) – I guess, it becomes challenging for fashion to be taken seriously in the greater climate conversation. Being that fashion is one of the most underregulated industries – I know this is shifting with more policy coming into play, but it's slow. This has further reduced the amount of data collected from brands, because it hasn't been required. As you can tell, data, fashion and sustainability have a complex history. This week's guest understands this reality, and is pushing to shift the narrative through her work with Textile Exchange. But it's a tricky task, when for her, a lack of data shouldn't prevent us from taking action. "Without having data to underpin statements about something working toward reducing impact or creating beneficial impact, there's really nothing for those statements to stand on. Now the challenge there is making sure that we're striking the right balance of not letting perfect data get in the way of doing the work that we need to do to improve practices and create beneficial outcomes for the industry." -Beth Materials Market Report 2025 (Press Release) Paper on Ensuring Integrity in the Use of Life Cycle Assessment Data (Press Release) Industry Reports Library Life Cycle Inventory (LCI) Library Follow Textile Exchange on Instagram

In Episode 338, Kestrel welcomes Miranda Green, an investigative journalist focused on politics and climate change, to the show. As the author of Atmos Magazine's weekly newsletter, The Understory, Miranda takes a weekly look behind the climate headlines to question how decisions are made, why they matter, and what they reveal about this moment. "I think data to me is, they're facts. It's hard facts. It's looking at points that have been, you know, they're determined by scientists. They've been measured. They are proven points that then, I can use as building blocks to tell my story." -Miranda THEME — DATA & FASHION: METHODS & ACCESS This week, we're taking a bit of a pulled back lens, exploring data amidst the current volatile political landscape, with a focus on climate data. Also, to note, this episode was recorded in December of 2025 – as things are changing so rapidly in these times, I want to clarify that detail. We are in this period of so-called misinformation and an era in which DATA MANIPULATION, as this week's guest articulates, is very real. But it's not only the way the data is being adjusted to fit the user's agenda - there's also the reality that scientifically-backed data is disappearing. The article that led me to this week's guest is called – "Big Gov Wants To Take Away Your Climate Data" (link below) and in it, she talks about how she always anticipated when the EPA would release its annual tally of corporate polluters and the fines they would have to pay when the pollution was too high. BUT, under Trump, these corporations are no longer required to report their emissions. And that means we don't know what the baseline is for these big polluters, moving forward – we no longer have the comparison data. This is just one blip in the labyrinth of climate and emissions data that this administration is finding ways to bury or delete. For this week's guest, an investigative journalist, the erasure of climate and emissions data by the Trump administration is making it harder to do her job, and to write stories about what's truly going on. On the show, we regularly talk a lot about the desire to understand where we're at when it comes to data in the fashion space, in order to determine the best way to move forward. With fashion being one of the most underregulated industries, having a complicated history with so-called data, and with big fashion players being some of the most notorious polluters out there, this reality of disappearing data is highly concerning. But people are fighting back – scientists and advocacy groups are finding ways to monitor the situation and challenge the Administration's actions. And this week's guest has ideas as well of how we can all get more engaged in ways to resist the continued erasure of significant climate data. "Big Gov Wants To Take Away Your Climate Data", article by Miranda on Atmos "I think out of sight out of mind is essentially what we are seeing happen right now and it does make it hard to determine what the truth is because what it ends up becoming is essentially, as you just described, is a marketing battle." -Miranda (23:11) Follow Miranda on Instagram Follow Atmos on Instagram

In Episode 337, Kestrel welcomes Gail Gallie, the founder of THE NAT, to the show. A new convening force for Nature, THE NAT is primarily focused on galvanizing the private capital needed to close the nature finance gap; they just held their inaugural NAT Gala "Night For Nature" in September 2025. From working in advertising to co-leading the creation of the UN Global Goals Campaign, Gail has an extensive background in global advocacy and campaigning. "I was pretty blown away that you could quantify the amount of money that was needed to fix where we are now to where we need to get to in order to be in harmony and sustainably working with the planet's resources…and then she said the number and it was $711 billion a year. And I was like, OMG that's enormous…And at the same time, this guy next to me lent in and he said, did she just say the nature finance gap is $711 billion? I said, yeah, I had like sad face, like boo, thumbs down, it's loads. And he said, no, he said, that's like not that bad." -Gail THEME — BRINGING NATURE BACK INTO THE FASHION FOLD In our last episode, I talked about how this 2-part episode theme – BRINGING NATURE BACK INTO THE FASHION FOLD – was inspired by Carry Somers' new book The Nature Of Fashion and the importance of reminding ourselves that we are Nature and fashion has the potential to be more of a reflection of Nature. This episode approaches this narrative from an ENTIRELY different lens – one that involves finance, luxury and creating a spectacle – which is why I really love the juxtaposition of these two conversations. If you hadn't heard yet, there is an actual number that has been calculated – an amount of money that if invested annually into nature-positive projects – could halt biodiversity loss and support a reset for the earth, enhancing life on this planet for years to come. It's called the nature finance gap – and according to estimates in 2020, the number was $711 billion dollars. If you're like me, hearing that number made me sink deeper into my seat, feeling the overwhelm wash even further over me. But turns out, for folks working in the investment space, this number's not actually that astronomical. It's somewhat accessible — according to this week's guest, if just 2% of global capital is redirected into nature, we could close that gap. So how does that happen? Considering that about 80% of current conservation funding comes from public sources like governments and multilateral institutions – that leaves a ton of space to galvanize private capital to bridge that gap. This week's guest has set out to make this happen by creating a luxurious spectacle in celebration of Nature. Anyone ever heard of The Met Gala? Right. Of course you have. If you work in sustainability, have you ever felt annoyed that everyone is paying attention to this one over-the-top night? And have you felt irritated that so much money is being funneled into the tickets and often very unsustainable attire for the evening? You're not alone. Yet so many of us still pay attention to it all. It's a spectacle and we are drawn to it. This week's guest, Gail, generally shared similar feelings. But a couple of Met Galas back, she shifted her perspective and decided to thinking about copying the concept, instead of fighting it — creating a sparkly night focused on generating more funding for Nature – to push toward closing that Nature Finance Gap. Maybe if we *feel* the power and intrigue of particular cultural moments, we should question how to replicate and reimagine them — instead of finding ourselves caught in the hamster wheel of complaining about the negative impact they may leave behind. Global Biodiversity Framework THE NAT's Website THE NAT on LinkedIn Gail Gallie on LinkedIn Get in touch with THE NAT Follow THE NAT on Instagram

In Episode 336, Kestrel welcomes author and visionary changemaker, Carry Somers, to the show. Co-founder of Fashion Revolution, the world's largest fashion activism movement, and the author of a new book – The Nature Of Fashion: A Botanical Story Of Our Material Lives, Carry has worked across the fashion space in various capacities, advocating for a shift towards transparency, fairness, and sustainability in supply chains. "Textiles reflect our connection with the natural world, but they're not just about utility. They're definitely about beauty as well. But they're also really an echo of our disconnection from it. And I realized during my research that that rift actually started far earlier than I'd ever realized." -Carry THEME —BRINGING NATURE BACK INTO THE FASHION FOLD There are various theories on what has led to the so-called disconnect between humans and nature – not only physically, but also ideologically. Amidst the fashion conversation, it's not necessarily prioritized. We may hear environmental advocates pushing for an expansion in the narrative to ensure humans are included as an integral part of nature. Or we may hear discussions about why we must reconnect with nature in order to better care for it. As this week's guest, Carry, teaches us – textiles are an integral part of this story – and they can tell us far more about our relationship with nature than we ever imagined – from both a historical and future-oriented lens. This two-part focus of the podcast is inspired by her new book – The Nature Of Fashion: A Botanical Story Of Our Materials Lives. The theme is: BRINGING NATURE BACK INTO THE FASHION FOLD. If you know me, you know I get very nerdy about words and their layered meanings. Which is why reading this segment from Carry's pulled me deep into the pages that followed – "The Latin verb texere, meaning to weave or construct with elaborate care, reminds us that both textiles and texts stem from acts of creation. Textiles and texts, born of the same etymological thread, are entwined with our histories, our cultures, our lives." The beautiful thing is that these overlaps between textiles and texts – materials and stories – goes far beyond just Latin. As our guest shares, they both evoke texture and encode memory, and through her research, she discovered that across various cultures around the world, there are parallels in both language and meanings, connecting textiles with texts. So, it becomes more and more clear that textiles have something significant to teach us about our collective history and future. At the same time, as my guest reminds us, the inequity of the archives became glaringly obvious the deeper she got into her research. So, in her book, *data collection* meant something more expansive than what we might be used to. For her, it was rooted in research, while also welcoming imagination and prioritizing oral traditions. As she poses in the book – "what if the story of humanity could be told through a single thread?" "Balance is not a place to reach, but a rhythm to feel." -Carry in her book Buy The Nature Of Fashion Carry's Website Follow Carry on Instagram

In Episode 335, Kestrel welcomes Lisa Kibutu, the founder of Regenerative Fashion Collaborative Exchange (REFACE) and Regenerative Textile Development Institute (RTDI), to the show. A tech-led social enterprise, REFACE was created to holistically address the negative impact of the global fashion industry on climate change, biodiversity, and the environment in Africa. With RTDI, she is building a pioneering research and development institution that leverages blockchain technology, zero waste operations, and regenerative agriculture to transform agricultural waste from Indigenous grain crops into high-quality textile yarn. "You're standing in this space, the gap between what society is expecting of you and what your soul insists on you to become. And it influences all my work and my obligation to the sacrifice of our ancestors, the sacrifice that they made to the colonizers, which is why we are where we are today. I sit on ancestral intelligence, which is the blueprint and the foundation of everything that I do. A little bit more than a blueprint to me – I am actually just going to claim my inheritance from the ancestors. And that claiming of the inheritance has become my purpose." -Lisa THEME —WHEN *REGENERATIVE* MEANS SO MUCH MORE THAN JUST A BUZZWORD The following is a very important statistic that is rarely centered in the so-called sustainability and fashion conversation — as reported by the UNEP, Africa contributes less than 3% of global greenhouse gas emissions. At the same time, the continent has been disproportionately impacted by the changing climate. With this in mind, in conjunction with her knowledge in fashion, design, anthropology and regenerative agriculture – Lisa founded a powerful two-prong approach to not only address the negative impact of the global fashion industry on climate change, biodiversity, and the environment in Africa, but also – to strategically research and develop innovative textiles made from the waste of Indigenous crops, and to maintain ownership of these technologies within the continent. Africa has a unique potential at this point in our history – especially when it comes to regenerative agriculture, with 80% of all the food production in Africa being run by smallholder farmers. The opportunities across Africa are expansive. And as Lisa reminds us, it's not about empowerment. It's about following the blueprint from AI – that is ancestral intelligence – and focusing on enriching communities across the continent. "You're right. Fashion is cultural. Cause you've moved from the basic need of covering according to weather patterns, and then you advance to the space where – you need to appeal to aesthetics. That's the next level. But aesthetics are particular to what you find in your environment and then it becomes artistic expression, personal expression of yourself. And I think those are the pieces now, when we talk about fast fashion – those are the pieces that are missing." -Lisa RTDI Website Follow REFACE on Instagram