Conscious Chatter

In Episode 337, Kestrel welcomes Gail Gallie, the founder of THE NAT, to the show. A new convening force for Nature, THE NAT is primarily focused on galvanizing the private capital needed to close the nature finance gap; they just held their inaugural NAT Gala "Night For Nature" in September 2025. From working in advertising to co-leading the creation of the UN Global Goals Campaign, Gail has an extensive background in global advocacy and campaigning. "I was pretty blown away that you could quantify the amount of money that was needed to fix where we are now to where we need to get to in order to be in harmony and sustainably working with the planet's resources…and then she said the number and it was $711 billion a year. And I was like, OMG that's enormous…And at the same time, this guy next to me lent in and he said, did she just say the nature finance gap is $711 billion? I said, yeah, I had like sad face, like boo, thumbs down, it's loads. And he said, no, he said, that's like not that bad." -Gail THEME — BRINGING NATURE BACK INTO THE FASHION FOLD In our last episode, I talked about how this 2-part episode theme – BRINGING NATURE BACK INTO THE FASHION FOLD – was inspired by Carry Somers' new book The Nature Of Fashion and the importance of reminding ourselves that we are Nature and fashion has the potential to be more of a reflection of Nature. This episode approaches this narrative from an ENTIRELY different lens – one that involves finance, luxury and creating a spectacle – which is why I really love the juxtaposition of these two conversations. If you hadn't heard yet, there is an actual number that has been calculated – an amount of money that if invested annually into nature-positive projects – could halt biodiversity loss and support a reset for the earth, enhancing life on this planet for years to come. It's called the nature finance gap – and according to estimates in 2020, the number was $711 billion dollars. If you're like me, hearing that number made me sink deeper into my seat, feeling the overwhelm wash even further over me. But turns out, for folks working in the investment space, this number's not actually that astronomical. It's somewhat accessible — according to this week's guest, if just 2% of global capital is redirected into nature, we could close that gap. So how does that happen? Considering that about 80% of current conservation funding comes from public sources like governments and multilateral institutions – that leaves a ton of space to galvanize private capital to bridge that gap. This week's guest has set out to make this happen by creating a luxurious spectacle in celebration of Nature. Anyone ever heard of The Met Gala? Right. Of course you have. If you work in sustainability, have you ever felt annoyed that everyone is paying attention to this one over-the-top night? And have you felt irritated that so much money is being funneled into the tickets and often very unsustainable attire for the evening? You're not alone. Yet so many of us still pay attention to it all. It's a spectacle and we are drawn to it. This week's guest, Gail, generally shared similar feelings. But a couple of Met Galas back, she shifted her perspective and decided to thinking about copying the concept, instead of fighting it — creating a sparkly night focused on generating more funding for Nature – to push toward closing that Nature Finance Gap. Maybe if we *feel* the power and intrigue of particular cultural moments, we should question how to replicate and reimagine them — instead of finding ourselves caught in the hamster wheel of complaining about the negative impact they may leave behind. Global Biodiversity Framework THE NAT's Website THE NAT on LinkedIn Gail Gallie on LinkedIn Get in touch with THE NAT Follow THE NAT on Instagram

In Episode 336, Kestrel welcomes author and visionary changemaker, Carry Somers, to the show. Co-founder of Fashion Revolution, the world's largest fashion activism movement, and the author of a new book – The Nature Of Fashion: A Botanical Story Of Our Material Lives, Carry has worked across the fashion space in various capacities, advocating for a shift towards transparency, fairness, and sustainability in supply chains. "Textiles reflect our connection with the natural world, but they're not just about utility. They're definitely about beauty as well. But they're also really an echo of our disconnection from it. And I realized during my research that that rift actually started far earlier than I'd ever realized." -Carry THEME —BRINGING NATURE BACK INTO THE FASHION FOLD There are various theories on what has led to the so-called disconnect between humans and nature – not only physically, but also ideologically. Amidst the fashion conversation, it's not necessarily prioritized. We may hear environmental advocates pushing for an expansion in the narrative to ensure humans are included as an integral part of nature. Or we may hear discussions about why we must reconnect with nature in order to better care for it. As this week's guest, Carry, teaches us – textiles are an integral part of this story – and they can tell us far more about our relationship with nature than we ever imagined – from both a historical and future-oriented lens. This two-part focus of the podcast is inspired by her new book – The Nature Of Fashion: A Botanical Story Of Our Materials Lives. The theme is: BRINGING NATURE BACK INTO THE FASHION FOLD. If you know me, you know I get very nerdy about words and their layered meanings. Which is why reading this segment from Carry's pulled me deep into the pages that followed – "The Latin verb texere, meaning to weave or construct with elaborate care, reminds us that both textiles and texts stem from acts of creation. Textiles and texts, born of the same etymological thread, are entwined with our histories, our cultures, our lives." The beautiful thing is that these overlaps between textiles and texts – materials and stories – goes far beyond just Latin. As our guest shares, they both evoke texture and encode memory, and through her research, she discovered that across various cultures around the world, there are parallels in both language and meanings, connecting textiles with texts. So, it becomes more and more clear that textiles have something significant to teach us about our collective history and future. At the same time, as my guest reminds us, the inequity of the archives became glaringly obvious the deeper she got into her research. So, in her book, *data collection* meant something more expansive than what we might be used to. For her, it was rooted in research, while also welcoming imagination and prioritizing oral traditions. As she poses in the book – "what if the story of humanity could be told through a single thread?" "Balance is not a place to reach, but a rhythm to feel." -Carry in her book Buy The Nature Of Fashion Carry's Website Follow Carry on Instagram

In Episode 335, Kestrel welcomes Lisa Kibutu, the founder of Regenerative Fashion Collaborative Exchange (REFACE) and Regenerative Textile Development Institute (RTDI), to the show. A tech-led social enterprise, REFACE was created to holistically address the negative impact of the global fashion industry on climate change, biodiversity, and the environment in Africa. With RTDI, she is building a pioneering research and development institution that leverages blockchain technology, zero waste operations, and regenerative agriculture to transform agricultural waste from Indigenous grain crops into high-quality textile yarn. "You're standing in this space, the gap between what society is expecting of you and what your soul insists on you to become. And it influences all my work and my obligation to the sacrifice of our ancestors, the sacrifice that they made to the colonizers, which is why we are where we are today. I sit on ancestral intelligence, which is the blueprint and the foundation of everything that I do. A little bit more than a blueprint to me – I am actually just going to claim my inheritance from the ancestors. And that claiming of the inheritance has become my purpose." -Lisa THEME —WHEN *REGENERATIVE* MEANS SO MUCH MORE THAN JUST A BUZZWORD The following is a very important statistic that is rarely centered in the so-called sustainability and fashion conversation — as reported by the UNEP, Africa contributes less than 3% of global greenhouse gas emissions. At the same time, the continent has been disproportionately impacted by the changing climate. With this in mind, in conjunction with her knowledge in fashion, design, anthropology and regenerative agriculture – Lisa founded a powerful two-prong approach to not only address the negative impact of the global fashion industry on climate change, biodiversity, and the environment in Africa, but also – to strategically research and develop innovative textiles made from the waste of Indigenous crops, and to maintain ownership of these technologies within the continent. Africa has a unique potential at this point in our history – especially when it comes to regenerative agriculture, with 80% of all the food production in Africa being run by smallholder farmers. The opportunities across Africa are expansive. And as Lisa reminds us, it's not about empowerment. It's about following the blueprint from AI – that is ancestral intelligence – and focusing on enriching communities across the continent. "You're right. Fashion is cultural. Cause you've moved from the basic need of covering according to weather patterns, and then you advance to the space where – you need to appeal to aesthetics. That's the next level. But aesthetics are particular to what you find in your environment and then it becomes artistic expression, personal expression of yourself. And I think those are the pieces now, when we talk about fast fashion – those are the pieces that are missing." -Lisa RTDI Website Follow REFACE on Instagram

In Episode 334, Kestrel welcomes Emily Mikhaiel, the cofounder and creative director of Nazeerah, to the show. A clothing brand inspired by the legacy of her grandmother, Nazeerah supports organic and regenerative farming practices to honor Egyptian cotton, and produces locally in Egypt to maintain direct relationships with their suppliers and reduce their carbon footprint. "There really wasn't waste while my father was growing up. Everything was either composted or if it was metal, it was recycled or reused or repurposed. If a garment was no longer wearable, they'd cut it up into strips and weave carpets out of it. And once the carpet was no longer usable, they'd cut it up again and compost it. So using that knowledge and thinking, you know, as a society, we've existed without plastics for millennia. Why can't we return to that and draw inspiration from that in our design?" -Emily SEPTEMBER THEME —WHEN *REGENERATIVE* MEANS SO MUCH MORE THAN JUST A BUZZWORD This week's episode is focused largely on a regenerative approach to making clothes – one that includes thinking about the end of life of the garment at the design process, where organic cotton farming is centered, not only to help maintain soil health, but also to enhance biodiversity and restore carbon to the soil, and where local production is prioritized. Without sounding like a broken record, it's important to acknowledge how this word – regenerative – has undoubtedly become another buzzword that's taken fashion by storm. We've seen countless brands integrate it into their marketing messaging, and it's becoming more and more utilized across the space as the "new way" to talk about building a more sustainable brand. HOWEVER – it's very key to note that regenerative is by no means a new concept. As we've touched on in past episodes, it is rooted in Indigenous knowledge, in traditional ways of farming and ancestral ways of growing plants and being in conversion with the Earth. This week's guest has deep family ties to cotton and garment making in Egypt. As she shares with us, Egypt has a unique history connected to cotton farming that for generations, was intrinsically linked to the natural rhythms of the Nile River. Through her brand, she is not only honoring her ancestors' connection to the land, but also supporting farmers who are reclaiming what regenerative cotton farming can look like today. Nazeerah Website Follow Nazeerah on Instagram

In Episode 333, Kestrel welcomes Cate Havstad-Casad, a designer, entrepreneur, and first-generation regenerative rancher, to the show. Cate's work as a designer and land steward has evolved a great deal since she founded Havstad Hat Company in 2014. Today she manages Casad Family Farms with her husband, while building Range Revolution, a luxury leather goods brand focused on using 100% American, regeneratively sourced hides. "I love the idea of having things forever. I love the idea of a great leather boot being resoled again and again. My work in hats, I'm like the anti-growth capitalist. I'm like, you should have two hats, maybe three and that should be it for your whole life and you send it back to me and I will re-block it and clean it up and reshape it for you. That is the world of craft that I come from and so I bring that ethos to this work with Range Revolution and leathers." -Cate AUGUST THEME — WELCOMING THE IN-BETWEENS IN LIFE, SUSTAINABILITY & FASHION This week's episode touches on a discourse that often fuels a lot of really intense reactions. I remember moderating a panel discussion about it in Berlin during fashion week that got very heated, and even recently, I hosted an Earth Day event in San Francisco, where the conversation suddenly got intense when this topic arose. If you guessed it – I'm talking about the oh-so-familiar LEATHER debate. There's a recurring dispute in the sustainability and fashion space that pins animal-based leather against vegan leather. It's often very this vs that oriented, and focuses on claiming which is quote unquote more "sustainable" than the other. A lot of the time, things get heated because leather is intrinsically linked to peoples' belief systems and values, which can leave very little space for the in-between. And I totally get where that passion stems from. At the same time, if you've been listening to Conscious Chatter over the years, you know there are no simple answers when it comes to the complexities of making products. And I don't think there is ever only one solution – we need to discover multifaceted approaches, considering the challenges we face with the climate crisis. From her lens as a craftsperson, designer and regenerative rancher, this week's guest is dedicated to rethinking waste in the animal agriculture space. One significant stat we learn from her is that – almost 5 million hides are wasted or thrown away annually in the United States alone. *source: Agriculture Utilization Research Institute With a mindset that "the most radical fibers are the ones that already exist" – she is pushing to disrupt the leather industry. For her, it's all about centering traceability, rethinking waste, and expanding the meaning of regenerative to not only include the land health, but also the health and wellbeing of the surrounding community. "We don't have regenerative outcomes on land if the people working within the systems. whether it be the land stewards or the people within the community that support those land stewards — if the community dynamics, if the economic dynamics are not also regenerative." (15:40) Range Revolution Website Follow Cate on Instagram Follow Range Revolution on Instagram This week's episode is brought to you by Range Revolution. Enjoy 15% off at RangeRevolution.com with code CHATTER.