Mountain & Prairie with Ed Roberson

Olivia Amber is a professional ultrarunner, climber, and adventurer, and a North Face sponsored athlete based in Bishop, California. I met Olivia at The Rut Mountain Runs in Big Sky, where she was on a public lands panel I moderated. She was also there to talk about her biggest project to date: Norman's 13. Norman's 13 is a route, a link-up of all thirteen of the Sierra's 14,000-foot peaks. It's more than 100 miles with over 40,000 feet of climbing, much of it exposed, off-trail, fifth-class scrambling. Last September, Olivia did the whole thing in one non-stop push, finishing in about 89 hours and becoming the first woman to complete it. The North Face made a short film about that effort, also called "Norman's 13," and I'll link to it in the show notes. And earlier this summer, Olivia and her friend and fellow North Face athlete Erika Flowers set the fastest known time on Granite Peak, the highest point in Montana. Olivia grew up in a tiny village in the woods of northern Wisconsin, the daughter of two schoolteachers who spent their summers road-tripping around the country with Olivia and her older sister. She went on to become an All-American Nordic skier at Colby College, and after graduation she made the hard decision to not pursue pro skiing. Instead, she began working in the corporate world in San Francisco, where the Bay Area trail running community pulled her in and she began to make a name for herself in the world of ultrarunning. Along the way she has dealt with serious health challenges, including a diagnosis of stage four endometriosis, which she speaks about openly and honestly. In this conversation, we talk about her upbringing and her college years, and about her idea that choosing to suffer is a privilege, because she has become acquainted with the kind of suffering you don't choose. We get into how she thinks about risk and ego on technical terrain, what she looks for in a mountain adventure partner, her upcoming trip to Bhutan for the Snowman Race, and the Wallace Stegner book she has reread more than any other. As you can probably tell by now Olivia is a hardcore athlete, but she's also incredibly humble, down-to-earth and funny– the exact kind of person I love talking to on the podcast. There's a link to "Norman's 13" in the show notes, and you should absolutely watch it. --- Olivia Amber "Norman's 13" film Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/olivia-amber --- THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Colorado Cattlemen's Agricultural Land Trust, MIRASOL: Looking at the Sun, Patagonia Books, the Rye Resurgence Project for their generous sponsorship. --- TOPICS DISCUSSED: 0:00 - Introducing Olivia Amber and highlighting MIRASOL 6:42 - Growing up in Wisconsin 8:40 - Congregating at the local school 11:20 - Endurance sports activated 13:39 - Finding passion in difficulty 15:30 - Olivia in high school and college 20:21 - D1 22:13 - All-American designation 25:13 - Moving away from professional skiing 27:34 - Athletics + corporate world 29:48 - San Francisco running community 32:58 - Going hard core 35:06 - Health scares 39:39 - The privilege of elective suffering 45:07 - The North Face and Norman's 13 51:26 - Not afraid 57:24 - Credit roll 59:50 - What to look for in an adventure partner 1:02:47 - Upcoming projects 1:03:56 - Book recs 1:05:37 - Wrapping up --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

Dan Flores is back for another visit on the podcast. If you're a fan of the history of the American West, then Dan is no stranger—he's the author of many of my favorite books, including American Serengeti, Coyote America, and Wild New World. Most recently, he wrapped up a 42-episode series with the MeatEater network called The American West with Dan Flores, covering everything from bison and wolves to the origins of our public lands and what it means to belong to a place. It's the closest most of us will get to sitting in one of Dan's university classes, and I can't recommend it highly enough. Dan is Professor spent much of his academic career at the University of Montana, but he's always been less interested in the Old West of cattle drives and gunfights than in what he calls the natural West—the landscapes, animals, Native people, and ideas that make this region unlike anywhere else. He grew up in Louisiana, a place with almost no public land, and spent the 1970s looking for a foothold in the real West. He found three: the canyon country outside Lubbock, Montana's Bitterroot Valley, and the Galisteo Valley south of Santa Fe, where he and his wife, Dr. Sara Dant, live today. In each place, he dug in, learned the country, and went to work restoring it. As expected, we covered a ton in this episode: We started with the story behind The American West series and how a decades-long friendship with Steven Rinella finally turned into 42 episodes. We discussed the biggest epiphany Dan had while making it—that for those of us living here now, the public lands matter far more than the frontier ever did. Dan traces the origins of public lands back to George Perkins Marsh, a wildly influential public intellectual most of us have never heard of, and forward through John Wesley Powell, the first forest reserves, and the end of homesteading in the 1930s. We dug into Theodore Roosevelt's transformation from a young man who rushed to Dakota Territory to kill a buffalo before they were all gone into a president willing to break with his own Gilded Age class to protect the landscapes and wildlife he loved. We also talked about repeat photography and the staggering disappearance of the glaciers in Glacier National Park, the willful destruction of Western wildlife, bioregionalism and rewilding on a scale that any of us can manage, and a few book recommendations to round it out. Be sure to check the episode notes for links to everything we discussed, including the full American West series and the new 2026 edition of Coyote America. Dan is as generous with his time and wisdom as anyone I know, and I always come away from these conversations with a longer reading list and a better understanding of this place. --- The American West with Dan Flores podcast Dan's Books Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/dan-flores-2 --- THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Colorado Cattlemen's Agricultural Land Trust, MIRASOL: Looking at the Sun, Patagonia Books, the Rye Resurgence Project for their generous sponsorship. --- TOPICS DISCUSSED: 0:00 - Introducing Dan Flores and highlighting the Rye Resurgence Project 7:24 - From writing to audio 13:10 - The natural West 20:01 - Aha! moments 28:41 - George Perkins Marsh 44:43 - Animal eradication 52:31 - Teddy Roosevelt deep-dive 1:05:18 - Place 1:13:56 - Rewilding the Bitterroot 1:20:12 - Rewilding on your own scale 1:23:06 - Book recs and wrapping up --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

Fitz Cahall is the creator of the legendary outdoor podcast The Dirtbag Diaries, co-founder of the creative agency Duct Tape Then Beer, and author of the excellent book States of Adventure. But most recently, he's gone from prolific creative mind to public lands advocate with the launch of Save Public Lands, a campaign that gives public land lovers of all stripes, from climbers to hunters, a way to go on the offense against the ongoing attacks on our public lands. The goal is a million signatures on a short letter with three clear demands: no more sell-offs, no more giveaways to foreign companies and billionaires, and no more backroom deals. Those signatures get delivered to DC and statehouses around Public Lands Day on September 26th. Partners include Outdoor Alliance, Backcountry Hunters & Anglers, MeatEater, The Conservation Alliance, and The Wilderness Society. Fitz got his start in the mid-2000s scraping by as a freelance journalist, a job he refers to as "naked subsistence hunting." In 2007, he took a few stories that hadn't sold and turned them into a podcast. He emailed it to 30 friends. The next day 30 people had listened, then 300, then 3,000. Nearly 20 years later, he and his wife and creative partner Becca have built Duct Tape Then Beer into a story studio behind award-winning films and podcasts, all guided by one rule: the work has to strengthen people's connections to the natural world and to each other. We talked about how Save Public Lands came together, why Fitz chose offense over defense, and how a coalition this politically diverse—hunters, climbers, skiers, veterans, and legacy conservation groups—managed to find common ground and rally around a shared goal. Then we lightened it up and got into his creative life, including why he treats creative work like a band rather than a solo act, how he and Becca avoided chasing money for its own sake, what he does when his enthusiasm dips, and why he believes doubt and optimism are far more powerful together than either one alone. It's worth noting I consider Fitz a role model in a lot of ways, and I don't think Mountain & Prairie would exist without his example. I've been listening to The Dirtbag Diaries since the days when you had to download podcasts onto your computer, load them onto your iPod, then plug the iPod into the tape deck in your truck to listen. That's exactly what I was doing back then, driving around trying to sell real estate, and those stories cracked open a whole way of living and working that I didn't know was available to me. So thank you, Fitz, for all of it. There's a link below to sign the letter. It takes about 20 seconds, so there's no excuse not to do it. I loved this conversation, and I hope you enjoy. --- SAVE PUBLIC LANDS – Sign the Letter! The Dirtbag Diaries Duct Tape Then Beer Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/fitz-cahall --- THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Colorado Cattlemen's Agricultural Land Trust, MIRASOL: Looking at the Sun, Patagonia Books, the Rye Resurgence Project for their generous sponsorship. --- TOPICS DISCUSSED: 0:00 - Introducing Fitz Cahall and highlighting Patagonia books 7:45 - Jumping right into Save Public Lands 13:22 - Going on the offense 18:05 - Partnerships for public lands 22:30 - The money 29:32 - How people can help 32:40 - And how orgs can help 33:56 - Fitz's creative life 39:42 - Evolving as a collaborator 43:12 - States of Adventure 46:26 - Keeping values intact 50:22 - Dealing with the dips 54:32 - Book recs 59:48 - Wrapping up --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

T.A. Barron—known as Tom to his friends—is a renowned author, a lifelong conservationist, and someone whose work sits at the intersection of two subjects that are near and dear to my heart: books and the natural world. Tom has written more than 30 books, including the internationally bestselling Merlin Saga, and his newest book, "Naming Nature: A Cabinet of Natural Curiosities for Word Lovers," gave us the perfect excuse to finally sit down together. It's a beautiful, fascinating exploration of the stories behind the names we give to plants, animals, and other parts of the natural world, and I think it's a must-read for anyone who loves nature and loves words—which probably describes most people listening to this podcast. Tom is also a deeply committed conservationist who has spent decades supporting and leading conservation efforts, so as you can imagine, we had plenty to talk about. Tom grew up first in New England and then on a ranch north of Colorado Springs, where watching the surrounding landscape disappear to development helped shape his conservation ethic at an early age. After Princeton and a Rhodes Scholarship at Oxford, he initially pursued a career in business in New York City, while waking up at four or four-thirty every morning to write before work. Eventually he realized that those early-morning hours were the happiest part of his day, so despite having already endured plenty of rejection as a young writer, he left a successful business career, moved back to Colorado, and gave writing another shot. More than 30 books later, I think it's safe to say that gamble worked out. Along the way, conservation has remained a central part of his life, including his longtime involvement with The Wilderness Society and many other conservation organizations and initiatives. Tom and I talked about his adventurous parents, his childhood in Colorado, his spectacular early failures as a writer, and the decision to walk away from a successful career to pursue the work that made him feel most alive. We talked about mortality and the importance of using our limited time well; managing the constant barrage of news and social media; optimism, wonder, and our shared love of the natural world; and how Tom became so deeply involved in conservation. And, of course, we dug into "Naming Nature" and some of the wonderfully strange stories behind names like hellbender, sarcastic fringehead, narwhal, praying mantis, elephant, and even the Yeti. We also talked about why names matter, how paying closer attention can lead to caring, and how caring can ultimately lead to conservation. This was a fun, wide-ranging conversation with a thoughtful and endlessly curious guy, and I think you'll really enjoy it. --- T.A. Barron Naming Nature: A Cabinet of Natural Curiosities for Word Lovers Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/ta-barron --- THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Colorado Cattlemen's Agricultural Land Trust, MIRASOL: Looking at the Sun, Patagonia Books, the Rye Resurgence Project for their generous sponsorship. --- TOPICS DISCUSSED: 0:00 - Introducing T.A. Barron and highlighting the Rye Resurgence Project 6:49 - Growing up 12:47 - Tom's early writing career 16:46 - Oxford days to first novel 21:53 - The work that goes into rejection 24:56 - Plan B, 10 years later 29:18 - Keeping mortality in mind 35:10 - Good and bad tools 37:51 - His first book on the shelf 41:21 - Getting into conservation 48:02 - The new book 53:52 - Where the word "sarcastic" came from 56:31 - And a few more fun word examples 1:02:52 - The capacity to name 1:04:19 - The Yeti 1:07:38 - Cultivating stewardship 1:11:11 - Book recs 1:15:33 - Wrapping up (and a reading of Elephant) --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

Kim Wiggins is a world-renowned painter from New Mexico, and one of the most recognizable artists working in the American West today. His bold, swirling canvases have made him one of the leading artistic voices of what's come to be called the New West. His work hangs in the Autry, the Booth, and the American Museum of Western Art in Denver, and this past year he won Best in Show at the Prix de West, the most prestigious award in Western art, becoming the first modernist ever to take it home. Kim comes by all of this honestly. Both sides of his family came west in covered wagons in the late 1800s and settled into ranching along the Pecos River. His mother was running two ranches and a nightclub in Arizona by her mid-twenties; his father was a photojournalist for Life and Sports Illustrated, and a bush pilot who once had to sprint back to his plane in the Amazon and count the arrows in the side of the fuselage. Kim grew up surrounded by creativity– Thomas Hart Benton paged through his sketchbook and he ate lunch with Georgia O'Keeffe at Ghost Ranch. He began focusing seriously on painting while stationed in Europe with the military and soon became the youngest member of the Society of American Impressionists — a career most artists would give an arm for, and one he walked away from completely. We talk about why he walked away, which starts with a moment at a show in St. Louis when he spotted one of his paintings across the room, hurried over, and discovered it wasn't his. We cover the lean years that followed, including knocking on doors in Lubbock in the summer heat with a car full of paintings. And we get into the ideas behind the work: why a loss of innovation is the death knell of a civilization, why he watches children in galleries instead of collectors, the paintings he made for the NAACP after his son asked him a question he couldn't answer, and his conviction that a gift, by definition, belongs to someone else. I first met Kim back in 2022 at Maxwell Alexander Gallery's ten-year show, where he was on a panel I moderated, and I've wanted a longer conversation ever since. Hope you enjoy. --- Kim Wiggins Prix de West Maxwell Alexander panel discussion (2022) Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/kim-wiggins --- THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Colorado Cattlemen's Agricultural Land Trust, MIRASOL: Looking at the Sun, Patagonia Books, the Rye Resurgence Project for their generous sponsorship. --- TOPICS DISCUSSED: 0:00 - Introducing Kim Wiggins 3:44 - Wiggins' family history 9:49 - Kim's dad's photojournalism travels 12:44 - Parental pressure? 17:07 - Military education 20:36 - Money v. creativity 28:36 - Making the decision to change course 34:52 - When things started to work 38:42 - It's never about Kim 43:47 - Continuous evolution 49:44 - How Kim's paintings come together 53:10 - Inspiration from his son 58:45 - Collaborative projects 1:04:26 - Blood and Thunder 1:06:21 - All the circles aligning 1:11:03 - How art has changed in the West 1:14:00 - Book recs 1:17:47 - Wrapping up --- ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE: Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes Mountain & Prairie Shop Mountain & Prairie on Instagram Upcoming Events About Ed Roberson Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts