<div> <p>David Shedd served as acting director of the Defense Intelligence Agency; Andrew Badger is a former DIA case officer now teaching state-sponsored espionage at Oxford. Together they've written <em>The Great Heist: China's Epic Campaign to Steal America's Secrets</em>. Matt talks with them about how the Ministry of State Security evolved from a backwater service into what they argue is the world's most powerful intelligence agency; how Beijing replaced Cold War recruitment tradecraft with guanxi-based social obligation and what the authors call "crowd-sourced espionage"; how Made in China 2025 functioned as a national collection priority list driving theft across defense, tech, and critical infrastructure; and why Volt and Salt Typhoon represent not an espionage story but pre-positioning for war—with kill switches already embedded in America's power grid and telecommunications backbone.</p><p>Subscribe and share to stay ahead in the world of intelligence, global issues, and current affairs.</p><p>Order <em>The Great Heist</em>: <a href="https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-great-heist-david-r-sheddandrew-badger">https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-great-heist-david-r-sheddandrew-badger<br></a><br>Connect with David and Andrew on LinkedIn:<br><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-shedd-00a32bb5">https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-shedd-00a32bb5</a><br><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewbadger1">https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewbadger1</a></p></div><h1><strong>Please share this episode using these links</strong></h1><div><p>Audio: <a href="https://pod.fo/e/3a9846">https://pod.fo/e/3a9846</a><br>YouTube: <a href="https://youtu.be/3jCFWGhI7_w">https://youtu.be/3jCFWGhI7_w</a></p></div><h1><strong>Support Secrets and Spies</strong></h1><div>Become a “Friend of the Podcast” on Patreon for £3/$4: <a href="https://www.patreon.com/SecretsAndSpies">https://www.patreon.com/SecretsAndSpies</a><br>Buy merchandise from our shop: <a href="https://www.redbubble.com/shop/ap/60934996">https://www.redbubble.com/shop/ap/60934996</a><br>Buy us a coffee: <a href="https://buymeacoffee.com/secretsandspies">https://buymeacoffee.com/secretsandspies</a><br>Subscribe to our YouTube page: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDVB23lrHr3KFeXq4VU36dg">https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDVB23lrHr3KFeXq4VU36dg<br></a><br>For more information about the podcast, check out our website: <a href="https://secretsandspiespodcast.com">https://secretsandspiespodcast.com<br></a><br></div><h1><strong>Connect with us on social media</strong></h1><div> <p>Bluesky: <a href="https://bsky.app/profile/secretsandspies.bsky.social">https://bsky.app/profile/secretsandspies.bsky.social</a><br>Instagram: <a href="https://instagram.com/secretsandspies">https://instagram.com/secretsandspies</a><br>Facebook: <a href="https://facebook.com/secretsandspies">https://facebook.com/secretsandspies</a><br>Spoutible: <a href="https://spoutible.com/SecretsAndSpies">https://spoutible.com/SecretsAndSpies</a></p><p>Follow Chris and Matt on Bluesky:<br><a href="https://bsky.app/profile/chriscarrfilm.bsky.social">https://bsky.app/profile/chriscarrfilm.bsky.social</a><br><a href="https://bsky.app/profile/mattfulton.net">https://bsky.app/profile/mattfulton.net<br></a><br><em>Secrets and Spies</em> is produced by Films &amp; Podcasts LTD: <a href="https://filmsandpodcasts.co.uk/">https://filmsandpodcasts.co.uk/</a><br>Music by Andrew R. Bird<br>Photo by Shutterstock</p><p><em>Secrets and Spies</em> sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.</p></div>