Julian Fisher spent his career as a British intelligence operative before distilling what he learned into the Think Like a Spy: Strategic Relations Workshop—and his central argument is counterintuitive: the most transferable lessons from intelligence work aren't classified techniques, they're interpersonal skills. In conversation with Chris, Fisher argues that human intelligence, at its core, is the disciplined practice of building trust, reading people accurately, and cultivating long-term strategic relationships—competencies with direct applications in leadership, negotiation, and professional life. The conversation covers his distinction between influence and manipulation (one operates in a subject's interests; the other subverts them), the role of self-awareness and genuine curiosity in effective leadership, and the trained capacity to step off the emotional battlefield and respond deliberately rather than react. Drawing on methods developed in intelligence, military, and law-enforcement contexts, Fisher's framework treats networking not as contact collection but as the construction of durable, mutually beneficial bonds—the kind that take years to build and, when they matter, make all the difference.Join Julian's course that starts on 23rd June here: https://theintelligencemaven.comConnect with Julian here: https://julesfisher.com/Support Secrets and SpiesBecome a “Friend of the Podcast” on Patreon for £3/$4: https://www.patreon.com/SecretsAndSpiesBuy merchandise from our shop: https://www.redbubble.com/shop/ap/60934996Buy us a coffee: https://buymeacoffee.com/secretsandspiesSubscribe to our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDVB23lrHr3KFeXq4VU36dgFor more information about the podcast, check out our website: https://secretsandspiespodcast.comConnect with us on social mediaBluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/secretsandspies.bsky.socialInstagram: https://instagram.com/secretsandspiesFacebook: https://facebook.com/secretsandspiesSpoutible: https://spoutible.com/SecretsAndSpiesFollow Chris and Matt on Bluesky:https://bsky.app/profile/chriscarrfilm.bsky.socialhttps://bsky.app/profile/mattfulton.netSecrets and Spies is produced by Films & Podcasts LTD: https://filmsandpodcasts.co.uk/Music by Andrew R. BirdPhoto by CanvaSecrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.