<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a target="_blank" href="https://michaelgarfield.substack.com/subscribe"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Membership&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;strong&gt; | &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;a target="_blank" href="http://every.org/humansontheloop"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Donations&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;strong&gt; | &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;a target="_blank" href="https://open.spotify.com/show/2eCYA4ISHLUWbEFOXJ8C5v"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Spotify&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;strong&gt; | &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;a target="_blank" href="http://youtube.com/michaelgarfield"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;YouTube&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;strong&gt; | &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;a target="_blank" href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humans-on-the-loop/id1152767505"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Apple Podcasts&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;✨ About This Episode&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;This week I talk to &lt;a target="_blank" href="http://arbesman.net"&gt;Sam Arbesman&lt;/a&gt;, scientist-in-residence at &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://www.luxcapital.com/"&gt;Lux Capital&lt;/a&gt;, Research Fellow at the &lt;a target="_blank" href="http://longnow.org/people/associate/arbesman/"&gt;Long Now Foundation&lt;/a&gt;, and host of &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://arbesman.substack.com/p/the-orthogonal-bet-season-two"&gt;The Orthogonal Bet&lt;/a&gt;, weaving together and plucking at the ideas in his delightful new book, &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/24290/9781541704480"&gt;&lt;em&gt;The Magic of Code: How Digital Language Created and Connected Our World…and Shapes Our Future&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;. Sam is a brilliant scholar, a maverick mind, and a good friend—so even though we don’t see perfectly eye-to-eye about just where the analogy of code as magic works and where it falls apart, that tiny bit of friction makes for a fascinating joint exploration into the liminal zones where our categories fray and their distinctions are constantly rewritten.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;In this episode, we discuss:• Sam’s origin story as a code-lover (00:10:20)• Code as “algebra and fire” (00:14:17)• If code is magic, what is magic? (00:20:10)• Open-source development and open-ended innovation (00:25:48)• Rethinking the nature of “failure” in the so-called Technocene (00:32:12)• Navigating simplicity and complexity (00:38:44)• Acceptable and unacceptable sacrifices to the incomprehensibility of our technologies (00:45:02)• The squishy overlap between tech and biology (00:54:03)• The co-domestication of software bugs and people (01:03:22)• And the emerging age of ephemerality (01:15:55)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;It was, as it always is with Sam, a joy. I hope you get as much out of it as we did.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;This Saturday at 10 am PDT is the return of our monthly members hangouts. &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;a target="_blank" href="https://michaelgarfield.substack.com/subscribe"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Join us!&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;✨ &lt;strong&gt;Show Links&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• Dig into &lt;a target="_blank" href="http://michaelgarfield.substack.com/podcast"&gt;nine years of mind-expanding conversations&lt;/a&gt;• &lt;a target="_blank" href="http://bit.ly/humansontheloop"&gt;Learn more&lt;/a&gt; about the Humans On The Loop project and its goals• Browse &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/shop/futurefossils"&gt;the books we discuss on the show&lt;/a&gt; at Bookshop.org• &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://calendly.com/michaelgarfield/consulting"&gt;Contact me&lt;/a&gt; if you have a problem you think I can help you solve• Explore &lt;a target="_blank" href="http://askfuturefossils.com/"&gt;the interactive knowledge graph&lt;/a&gt; grown from over 250 episodes• Explore &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://michaelgarfield.substack.com/p/seahorse"&gt;the Google Notebook for How To Live In The Future,&lt;/a&gt; my five-week science and philosophy course at Weirdosphere&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;✨ &lt;strong&gt;Mentioned Reading &amp; People&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Steven Johnson - &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/24290/9781594481949"&gt;&lt;em&gt;Everything Bad Is Good For You&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;William Alonso - “&lt;a target="_blank" href="https://annas-archive.org/scidb/10.1080/01944366808977813/"&gt;Predicting Best with Imperfect Data&lt;/a&gt;”Danny Hillis - “&lt;a target="_blank" href="https://longnow.org/ideas/the-enlightenment-is-dead-long-live-the-entanglement/"&gt;The Enlightenment Is Dead, Long Live The Entanglement&lt;/a&gt;”Moses Maimonides - &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guide_for_the_Perplexed"&gt;&lt;em&gt;The Guide To The Perplexed&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;Richard Brautigan - “&lt;a target="_blank" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Watched_Over_by_Machines_of_Loving_Grace"&gt;All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace&lt;/a&gt;”Stewart Brand - &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/24290/9780465007806"&gt;&lt;em&gt;The Clock of The Long Now&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Lawrence Lundy-BryanClive ThompsonKevin KellyJose Luis BorgesLionel Snell (Ramsey Dukes)Nadia AsparouhovaUrsula K LeGuinWilliam GibsonDavid KrakauerMichael LevinChris LangtonJim LovelockLynn MargulisAlan MooreJessica FlackMonica AndersonJeremy UtleyAlan PerlisSteve Jobs&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;✨ Mentioned Episodes&lt;/p&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit &lt;a href="https://michaelgarfield.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&amp;#38;utm_campaign=CTA_2"&gt;michaelgarfield.substack.com/subscribe&lt;/a&gt;</description>

Humans On The Loop

Michael Garfield

Co-Evolving with Magical Technologies feat. Sam Arbesman

OCT 2, 202584 MIN
Humans On The Loop

Co-Evolving with Magical Technologies feat. Sam Arbesman

OCT 2, 202584 MIN

Description

<p><a target="_blank" href="https://michaelgarfield.substack.com/subscribe"><strong>Membership</strong></a><strong> | </strong><a target="_blank" href="http://every.org/humansontheloop"><strong>Donations</strong></a><strong> | </strong><a target="_blank" href="https://open.spotify.com/show/2eCYA4ISHLUWbEFOXJ8C5v"><strong>Spotify</strong></a><strong> | </strong><a target="_blank" href="http://youtube.com/michaelgarfield"><strong>YouTube</strong></a><strong> | </strong><a target="_blank" href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humans-on-the-loop/id1152767505"><strong>Apple Podcasts</strong></a></p><p>✨ About This Episode</p><p>This week I talk to <a target="_blank" href="http://arbesman.net">Sam Arbesman</a>, scientist-in-residence at <a target="_blank" href="https://www.luxcapital.com/">Lux Capital</a>, Research Fellow at the <a target="_blank" href="http://longnow.org/people/associate/arbesman/">Long Now Foundation</a>, and host of <a target="_blank" href="https://arbesman.substack.com/p/the-orthogonal-bet-season-two">The Orthogonal Bet</a>, weaving together and plucking at the ideas in his delightful new book, <a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/24290/9781541704480"><em>The Magic of Code: How Digital Language Created and Connected Our World…and Shapes Our Future</em></a>. Sam is a brilliant scholar, a maverick mind, and a good friend—so even though we don’t see perfectly eye-to-eye about just where the analogy of code as magic works and where it falls apart, that tiny bit of friction makes for a fascinating joint exploration into the liminal zones where our categories fray and their distinctions are constantly rewritten.</p><p>In this episode, we discuss:• Sam’s origin story as a code-lover (00:10:20)• Code as “algebra and fire” (00:14:17)• If code is magic, what is magic? (00:20:10)• Open-source development and open-ended innovation (00:25:48)• Rethinking the nature of “failure” in the so-called Technocene (00:32:12)• Navigating simplicity and complexity (00:38:44)• Acceptable and unacceptable sacrifices to the incomprehensibility of our technologies (00:45:02)• The squishy overlap between tech and biology (00:54:03)• The co-domestication of software bugs and people (01:03:22)• And the emerging age of ephemerality (01:15:55)</p><p>It was, as it always is with Sam, a joy. I hope you get as much out of it as we did.</p><p><strong>This Saturday at 10 am PDT is the return of our monthly members hangouts. </strong><a target="_blank" href="https://michaelgarfield.substack.com/subscribe"><strong>Join us!</strong></a></p><p>✨ <strong>Show Links</strong></p><p>• Dig into <a target="_blank" href="http://michaelgarfield.substack.com/podcast">nine years of mind-expanding conversations</a>• <a target="_blank" href="http://bit.ly/humansontheloop">Learn more</a> about the Humans On The Loop project and its goals• Browse <a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/shop/futurefossils">the books we discuss on the show</a> at Bookshop.org• <a target="_blank" href="https://calendly.com/michaelgarfield/consulting">Contact me</a> if you have a problem you think I can help you solve• Explore <a target="_blank" href="http://askfuturefossils.com/">the interactive knowledge graph</a> grown from over 250 episodes• Explore <a target="_blank" href="https://michaelgarfield.substack.com/p/seahorse">the Google Notebook for How To Live In The Future,</a> my five-week science and philosophy course at Weirdosphere</p><p>✨ <strong>Mentioned Reading & People</strong></p><p>Steven Johnson - <a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/24290/9781594481949"><em>Everything Bad Is Good For You</em></a>William Alonso - “<a target="_blank" href="https://annas-archive.org/scidb/10.1080/01944366808977813/">Predicting Best with Imperfect Data</a>”Danny Hillis - “<a target="_blank" href="https://longnow.org/ideas/the-enlightenment-is-dead-long-live-the-entanglement/">The Enlightenment Is Dead, Long Live The Entanglement</a>”Moses Maimonides - <a target="_blank" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guide_for_the_Perplexed"><em>The Guide To The Perplexed</em></a>Richard Brautigan - “<a target="_blank" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Watched_Over_by_Machines_of_Loving_Grace">All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace</a>”Stewart Brand - <a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/24290/9780465007806"><em>The Clock of The Long Now</em></a></p><p>Lawrence Lundy-BryanClive ThompsonKevin KellyJose Luis BorgesLionel Snell (Ramsey Dukes)Nadia AsparouhovaUrsula K LeGuinWilliam GibsonDavid KrakauerMichael LevinChris LangtonJim LovelockLynn MargulisAlan MooreJessica FlackMonica AndersonJeremy UtleyAlan PerlisSteve Jobs</p><p>✨ Mentioned Episodes</p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://michaelgarfield.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_2">michaelgarfield.substack.com/subscribe</a>