<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a target="_blank" href="https://michaelgarfield.substack.com/subscribe"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Membership&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;strong&gt; | &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;a target="_blank" href="http://every.org/humansontheloop"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Donations&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;strong&gt; | &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;a target="_blank" href="https://open.spotify.com/show/2eCYA4ISHLUWbEFOXJ8C5v"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Spotify&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;strong&gt; | &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;a target="_blank" href="http://youtube.com/michaelgarfield"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;YouTube&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;strong&gt; | &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;a target="_blank" href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humans-on-the-loop/id1152767505"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Apple Podcasts&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;This week we hear from &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://larrymuhlstein.com/"&gt;Larry Muhlstein&lt;/a&gt;, who worked on Responsible AI at Google and DeepMind before leaving to found the &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://www.holistic.love/"&gt;Holistic Technology Project&lt;/a&gt;. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;In Larry’s words:&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;“Care is crafted from understanding, respect, and will. Once care is deep enough and in a generative reciprocal relationship, it gives rise to self-expanding love. My work focuses on creating such systems of care by constructing a holistic sociotechnical tree with roots of philosophical orientation, a trunk of theoretical structure, and technological leaves and fruit that offer nourishment and support to all parts of our world. I believe that we can grow love through technologies of togetherness that help us to understand, respect, and care for each other. I am committed to supporting the responsible development of such technologies so that we can move through these trying times towards a world where we are all well together.”&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;In this episode, Larry and I explore the “roots of philosophical orientation” and “trunk of theoretical structure” as he lays them out in his &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://mind.technological.love/technologicallove/core/technological+love"&gt;Technological Love&lt;/a&gt; knowledge garden, asking how technologies for reality, perspectives, and karma can help us grow a world in love. What is just enough abstraction? When is autonomy desirable and when is it a false god? What do property and selfhood look like in a future where the ground truths of our interbeing shape design and governance?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;It’s a long, deep conversation on fundamentals we need to reckon with if we are to live in futures we actually want. I hope you enjoy it as much as we did.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Our next dialogue is with &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://arbesman.net/"&gt;Sam Arbesman&lt;/a&gt;, resident researcher at Lux Capital and author of &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/24290/9781541704480"&gt;&lt;em&gt;The Magic of Code&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;. We’ll interrogate the distinctions between software and spellcraft, explore the unique blessings and challenges of a world defined by advanced computing, and probe the good, bad, and ugly of futures that move at the speed of thought…&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;✨ &lt;strong&gt;Show Links&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://calendly.com/michaelgarfield/consulting"&gt;Hire me&lt;/a&gt; for speaking or consulting• Explore &lt;a target="_blank" href="http://askfuturefossils.com/"&gt;the interactive knowledge garden&lt;/a&gt; grown from over 250 episodes• Explore &lt;a target="_blank" href="http://michaelgarfield.substack.com/podcast"&gt;the Humans On The Loop dialogue and essay archives&lt;/a&gt;• Browse &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/shop/futurefossils"&gt;the books we discuss on the show&lt;/a&gt; at Bookshop.org• Dig into &lt;a target="_blank" href="http://michaelgarfield.substack.com/podcast"&gt;nine years of mind-expanding podcasts&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;✨ Additional Resources&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;“&lt;a target="_blank" href="https://www.hurryupweredreaming.com/issues/1/growing-a-world-in-love"&gt;Growing A World In Love&lt;/a&gt;” — Larry Muhlstein at &lt;em&gt;Hurry Up, We’re Dreaming&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;“&lt;a target="_blank" href="https://michaelgarfield.medium.com/how-to-live-in-the-future-part-3-the-future-is-both-true-and-false-aba0369fcdeb"&gt;The Future Is Both True &amp; False&lt;/a&gt;” — Michael Garfield on Medium&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;“&lt;a target="_blank" href="https://hurryupweredreaming.com/issues/2/sacred-data"&gt;Sacred Data&lt;/a&gt;” — Michael Garfield at &lt;em&gt;Hurry Up, We’re Dreaming&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;“&lt;a target="_blank" href="https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1337&amp;#38;context=public_law_and_legal_theory"&gt;The Right To Destroy&lt;/a&gt;” — Lior Strahilevitz at &lt;em&gt;Chicago Unbound&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;“&lt;a target="_blank" href="https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4105763"&gt;Decentralized Society: Finding Web3’s Soul&lt;/a&gt;” — Puja Ohlhaver, E. Glen Weyl, and Vitalik Buterin at &lt;em&gt;SSRN&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;✨ &lt;strong&gt;Mentions&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Karl Schroeder’s “&lt;a target="_blank" href="https://aviv.medium.com/degrees-of-freedom-d883f1265e89"&gt;Degrees of Freedom&lt;/a&gt;”Joshua DiCaglio’s &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/24290/9781517912079"&gt;&lt;em&gt;Scale Theory&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;Geoffrey West’s &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/24290/9780143110903"&gt;&lt;em&gt;Scale&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;Hannah ArendtKen WilberDoug Rushkoff’s &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/24290/9781324066064"&gt;&lt;em&gt;Survival of the Richest&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;Manda Scott’s &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/24290/9781914613692"&gt;&lt;em&gt;Any Human Power&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt; Torey HaydenChaim Gingold’s &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/24290/9780262547482"&gt;&lt;em&gt;Building SimCity&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;James P. Carse’s &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/24290/9781476731711"&gt;&lt;em&gt;Finite &amp; Infinite Games&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;John C. Wright’s &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/24290/9789527303504"&gt;&lt;em&gt;The Golden Oecumene&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;Eckhart Tolle’s &lt;a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/24290/9781577314806"&gt;&lt;em&gt;The Power of Now&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;✨ Related Episodes&lt;/p&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit &lt;a href="https://michaelgarfield.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&amp;#38;utm_campaign=CTA_2"&gt;michaelgarfield.substack.com/subscribe&lt;/a&gt;</description>

Humans On The Loop

Michael Garfield

Holistic Technology for Growing a World in Love with Larry Muhlstein

SEP 22, 2025134 MIN
Humans On The Loop

Holistic Technology for Growing a World in Love with Larry Muhlstein

SEP 22, 2025134 MIN

Description

<p><a target="_blank" href="https://michaelgarfield.substack.com/subscribe"><strong>Membership</strong></a><strong> | </strong><a target="_blank" href="http://every.org/humansontheloop"><strong>Donations</strong></a><strong> | </strong><a target="_blank" href="https://open.spotify.com/show/2eCYA4ISHLUWbEFOXJ8C5v"><strong>Spotify</strong></a><strong> | </strong><a target="_blank" href="http://youtube.com/michaelgarfield"><strong>YouTube</strong></a><strong> | </strong><a target="_blank" href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humans-on-the-loop/id1152767505"><strong>Apple Podcasts</strong></a></p><p>This week we hear from <a target="_blank" href="https://larrymuhlstein.com/">Larry Muhlstein</a>, who worked on Responsible AI at Google and DeepMind before leaving to found the <a target="_blank" href="https://www.holistic.love/">Holistic Technology Project</a>. </p><p>In Larry’s words:</p><p>“Care is crafted from understanding, respect, and will. Once care is deep enough and in a generative reciprocal relationship, it gives rise to self-expanding love. My work focuses on creating such systems of care by constructing a holistic sociotechnical tree with roots of philosophical orientation, a trunk of theoretical structure, and technological leaves and fruit that offer nourishment and support to all parts of our world. I believe that we can grow love through technologies of togetherness that help us to understand, respect, and care for each other. I am committed to supporting the responsible development of such technologies so that we can move through these trying times towards a world where we are all well together.”</p><p>In this episode, Larry and I explore the “roots of philosophical orientation” and “trunk of theoretical structure” as he lays them out in his <a target="_blank" href="https://mind.technological.love/technologicallove/core/technological+love">Technological Love</a> knowledge garden, asking how technologies for reality, perspectives, and karma can help us grow a world in love. What is just enough abstraction? When is autonomy desirable and when is it a false god? What do property and selfhood look like in a future where the ground truths of our interbeing shape design and governance?</p><p>It’s a long, deep conversation on fundamentals we need to reckon with if we are to live in futures we actually want. I hope you enjoy it as much as we did.</p><p>Our next dialogue is with <a target="_blank" href="https://arbesman.net/">Sam Arbesman</a>, resident researcher at Lux Capital and author of <a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/24290/9781541704480"><em>The Magic of Code</em></a>. We’ll interrogate the distinctions between software and spellcraft, explore the unique blessings and challenges of a world defined by advanced computing, and probe the good, bad, and ugly of futures that move at the speed of thought…</p><p>✨ <strong>Show Links</strong></p><p>• <a target="_blank" href="https://calendly.com/michaelgarfield/consulting">Hire me</a> for speaking or consulting• Explore <a target="_blank" href="http://askfuturefossils.com/">the interactive knowledge garden</a> grown from over 250 episodes• Explore <a target="_blank" href="http://michaelgarfield.substack.com/podcast">the Humans On The Loop dialogue and essay archives</a>• Browse <a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/shop/futurefossils">the books we discuss on the show</a> at Bookshop.org• Dig into <a target="_blank" href="http://michaelgarfield.substack.com/podcast">nine years of mind-expanding podcasts</a></p><p>✨ Additional Resources</p><p>“<a target="_blank" href="https://www.hurryupweredreaming.com/issues/1/growing-a-world-in-love">Growing A World In Love</a>” — Larry Muhlstein at <em>Hurry Up, We’re Dreaming</em></p><p>“<a target="_blank" href="https://michaelgarfield.medium.com/how-to-live-in-the-future-part-3-the-future-is-both-true-and-false-aba0369fcdeb">The Future Is Both True & False</a>” — Michael Garfield on Medium</p><p>“<a target="_blank" href="https://hurryupweredreaming.com/issues/2/sacred-data">Sacred Data</a>” — Michael Garfield at <em>Hurry Up, We’re Dreaming</em></p><p>“<a target="_blank" href="https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1337&#38;context=public_law_and_legal_theory">The Right To Destroy</a>” — Lior Strahilevitz at <em>Chicago Unbound</em></p><p>“<a target="_blank" href="https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4105763">Decentralized Society: Finding Web3’s Soul</a>” — Puja Ohlhaver, E. Glen Weyl, and Vitalik Buterin at <em>SSRN</em></p><p>✨ <strong>Mentions</strong></p><p>Karl Schroeder’s “<a target="_blank" href="https://aviv.medium.com/degrees-of-freedom-d883f1265e89">Degrees of Freedom</a>”Joshua DiCaglio’s <a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/24290/9781517912079"><em>Scale Theory</em></a>Geoffrey West’s <a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/24290/9780143110903"><em>Scale</em></a>Hannah ArendtKen WilberDoug Rushkoff’s <a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/24290/9781324066064"><em>Survival of the Richest</em></a>Manda Scott’s <a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/24290/9781914613692"><em>Any Human Power</em></a> Torey HaydenChaim Gingold’s <a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/24290/9780262547482"><em>Building SimCity</em></a>James P. Carse’s <a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/24290/9781476731711"><em>Finite & Infinite Games</em></a>John C. Wright’s <a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/24290/9789527303504"><em>The Golden Oecumene</em></a>Eckhart Tolle’s <a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/24290/9781577314806"><em>The Power of Now</em></a></p><p>✨ Related Episodes</p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://michaelgarfield.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_2">michaelgarfield.substack.com/subscribe</a>