Conservation and Science

I feel like this episode is the ultimate guide to understanding coexistence with wolves. Once again I talk with ecological anthropologist Thorsten Gieser, this time about his excellent book “Living with Wolves: Affects, Feelings and Sentiments in Human-Wolf Coexistence”. In the episode, Thorsten recounts a tense atmosphere during the visit to a wolf kill site. We also talk about understanding emotions that are sparked by wolves, and we discuss the recent decision to lower the protection status of wolves in the EU.

During our conversation, Thorsten draws from his extensive fieldwork across Germany where he witnessed firsthand the aftermath of wolf attacks on livestock. He explains the unique psychological impact wolves have on communities, stemming from both their distinctive hunting methods, which he describes in terms of "necroaesthetics", and centuries of cultural conditioning. We examine the political dimensions of wolf management across Europe and explore the often contradictory attitudes within hunting communities, who historically viewed wolves as competitors rather than fellow predators. Thorsten challenges common narratives, addressing how conspiracy theories about wolf reintroduction persist despite clear evidence of natural recolonisation.

Moving beyond practical considerations, we discuss Thorsten's concept of “affect-guided thinking” in wildlife management, an approach that acknowledges emotional responses without being driven solely by them. The discussion explores the “queasy feeling” many experience in wolf territories and the emotional resilience required for true coexistence. Rather than focusing exclusively on protection levels or culling quotas, Thorsten argues we must confront more fundamental questions: How do we distinguish between legitimate concerns and fear-mongering? What emotions should we cultivate to share landscapes with these controversial predators? And how might we develop the psychological capacity to live alongside animals that challenge our sense of control over nature?

Is it possible for humans and large carnivores to share landscapes without conflict? What happens when predators like wolves, bears, and lynx return to areas where they've been absent for centuries? How do we balance the ecological benefits of apex predators with the real concerns of rural communities and farmers? We’re trying to answer these questions with our returning guest Dr Jonny Hanson, author of ‘Living with Lynx: Sharing Landscapes with Big Cats, Wolves and Bears.’

Drawing on his unique background in both farming and conservation, Jonny brings a nuanced perspective to this often polarising topic. He recounts his experiences growing up in Malawi where wildlife existed alongside urban areas, and how this shaped his understanding of human-wildlife conflict. The conversation explores the urban-rural divide in attitudes towards large carnivores, with Jonny pointing out that 'everybody loves a large carnivore when it's somewhere else' – a phenomenon he calls 'biological NIMBYism.' We also examine how compensation schemes for livestock losses often fail to deliver the expected outcomes due to bureaucracy and delays, turning farmers with positive attitudes into fierce opponents of predator reintroduction.

In the episode, we also tackle difficult ethical questions about lethal control, the use of technology in managing human-wildlife conflict, and the philosophical meaning of "wildness" in our modern world. Jonny emphasises that while the ecological benefits of reintroducing large carnivores are important, we shouldn't overlook the emotional and philosophical dimensions – the sense of wonder that comes from knowing these animals exist in our landscapes, even if we never see them. We conclude the episode by attempting to predict if the reintroduction of predators to Britain and Ireland will happen in the coming decades.

What makes someone kill an animal and still claim to care deeply about nature? Can the act of hunting foster environmental stewardship? These somewhat provocative questions lie at the heart of my conversation with Thorsten Gieser, an anthropologist studying hunting practices and their deeper meaning in modern society.

Our discussion explores the complex emotional landscape of hunting and challenges common misconceptions about hunters taking pleasure in killing. Through personal accounts and research findings, Thorsten explains how the difficult experience of taking an animal's life, when approached mindfully, can lead to deeper environmental awareness and connection with nature. We also discuss how various factors, from hunting traditions to modern technology, influence the relationship between hunters and the natural environment.

Our conversation takes a turn when we discuss hunting rituals and their role in modern society. Rather than dismissing them as outdated customs, Thorsten explains their crucial function in creating space for reflection and processing the weight of taking life. We end the episode with a discussion about how hunters can better engage in public debates about their practice, suggesting that acknowledging the moral complexity of killing might lead to a more productive dialogue about conservation and our relationship with nature.

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