This week, Jesuitical co-host Ashley McKinless and producer Sebastian Gomes speak to Michael W. Higgins about the spiritual master, Father Henri Nouwen (1932-1996). They explore Nouwen’s “wounded healer” approach to ministry, his brokenness and vulnerability, and his impact on contemporary Catholic thought. In “Signs of the Times,” Ashley and Zac discuss Secretary of State Marco Rubio’s visit to Pope Leo, plans for a border wall through a pilgrimage site, a cosmetics mogul turned Catholic priest, and when customer service hung up on Pope Leo. 00:00 Who is Henri Nouwen? 2:51 Pope Leo meets Marco Rubio 7:42 A border wall through a pilgrimage site? 10:40 A cosmetics mogul turned Catholic priest 12:39 Customer service hangs up on Pope Leo 15:40 You need to know Henri Nouwen 18:31 Henri Nouwen was an enigma 25:14 Nouwen's writings 31:23 How Nouwen understood priesthood 36:54 Intimacy, celibacy and homosexuality 41:17 Nouwen, the wounded healer 44:52 Good ministry isn't performative 48:39 How Nouwen prayed 58:00 Faith sharing: overcoming performative piety Links: Pope Leo XIV’s First Year Pope Leo meets with Marco Rubio amid Trump’s personal attacks Catholic diocese fights Trump administration plan to seize pilgrimage site for border wall Cosmetics millionaire turned seminarian, he’d give fortune ‘back a million times’ for Jesus Story of customer service agent hanging up on Leo shows pope’s ‘normal’ side "Genius Born of Anguish: The Life and Legacy of Henri Nouwen" 2026 Henri Nouwen Conference: "Longing for Home: The Prophetic Witness of Henri Nouwen in a Wounded World" Henri Nouwen Society Henri Nouwen: How to (actually) pray without ceasing The Monk and The Cripple by Henri Nouwen, 1980 Podcast Deep Dive: The first American pope—how it happened and what it means Performative piety: Why liturgy is not a space for self-expression Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices