<p>In the wake of twin disasters two decades apart, how do we make sense of why they happened?</p><p>In episode four, we find out what happened on the very first flight after Columbia — and ask whether NASA changed at all.</p><p>To hear more podcast episodes from hosts Fiona Pepper and Dr Karl Kruszelnicki about the legacy the 1986 Challenger space shuttle disaster left on culture, space exploration and high-risk decision making, search ‘Science Friction: The Challenger Legacy podcast’ from Radio National (RN) on the ABC Listen App (Australia), or wherever you get your podcasts.</p><p>Guests:</p><p>Mike CiannilliFormer Columbia integration systems engineer, NASA</p><p>Miles O'BrienAerospace correspondent, CNN</p><p>Adam HigginbothamAuthor, Challenger: A True Story of Heroism and Disaster on the Edge of Space</p><p>Mark MaierDistinguished professor of leadership, Chapman University, California</p><p>Eileen CollinsFormer astronaut; commander, STS-114</p><p>Credits:</p><ul><li>Presenters: Fiona Pepper and Karl Kruszelnicki</li><li>Reporter: Fiona Pepper</li><li>Senior Producer: James Bullen</li><li>Series Producer: Jonathan Webb</li><li>Executive Producer: Petria Ladgrove</li><li>Sound Engineer: Tim Jenkins</li><li>Archives Research: Lisa Chidlow, Michael Osmond</li></ul><p>This story was made on the lands of the Gadigal and Menang Noongar peoples.</p>