Center for REALTOR® Development

Welcome, friends, to the Center for REALTOR® Development podcast from the National Association of REALTORS®. We are here in Part 2 with my guest, Dr. Jessica Lautz from NAR. Dr. Lautz is the Deputy Chief Economist and Vice President of Research at the National Association of REALTORS®. We are releasing this interview in two episodes. This is Part 2. Now, each one of these episodes stands alone, but we encourage you to start with Episode 1 or even go back to it for some more context. [1:10] Welcome back, my favorite data researcher! Thank you so much for being with me and with our listeners. I love how you get to talk to everybody around the country and share all the good scoop and help keep us informed. [1:25] Dr. Lautz says it's a highlight of her job. She loves having boots on the ground, seeing what's going on in local markets, what REALTORS® are feeling, and what the pulse is. Talking to people is important. [1:43] Monica recommends that listeners take the opportunity to go listen to Dr. Lautz and hear some of her great stories. [2:17] We're going to talk a little bit more specifically about clients and client needs, especially our first time home buyers. The demographic has shifted. [2:40] Dr Lautz explores the data. First-time homebuyers are different today. First-time homebuyers have dropped to the lowest level the NAR has ever recorded, dating back to 1981. It's just 24% of the market. In a healthy market, it would be 40%. [3:05] The 24% figure is an annual figure from last year. Monthly figures are ticking up, and this looks like it will be a better spring for first-time home buyers. [3:44] The median age of first-time homebuyers is now 38 years old. That's an all-time high. The median age historically was 28. Housing affordability and lack of inventory are issues. [4:13] Saving for a down payment is also difficult because of higher rent, student loan debt, childcare costs, car loans, and inflation. [4:33] First-time homebuyers' annual income has jumped by $26K in the last two years. The housing market has removed anyone with a lower income. Doctors and investment bankers will win out over first responders and schoolteachers. It's a different type of first-time homebuyer. [5:25] First-time home buyers' down-payment sources are different, too. They're more likely to use financial assets like stocks, 401(k), and cryptocurrency. They are still using the bank of Mom and Dad. Inheritance use is also up. [6:50] Dr. Lautz says we are seeing a generational transfer of wealth. The use of inheritances is at an all time high, but still in the single digits. Some parents are passing wealth along while they're still thriving. We have seen it come down, though. It may be uncomfortable for a 40-year-old to ask a parent for cash. [8:11] Dr. Lautz sees some 20-somethings and even Gen Zers coming into the market. Gen Z makes up 3% of the market. Young Millennials and Gen Zers may have learned from the mistakes of older Millennials who got graduate degrees. Some of that has to do with the Great Recession. [8:41] The big thing we've learned from today's young buyers is that they're willing to make some financial sacrifices, like living with parents for a longer time, not paying a huge rent. That allows them to earn homeownership sooner. [9:49] Dr. Lautz has found that when these young adults move into home ownership, half of them had been paying rent to family members they were living with. [10:37] How does a young adult build a credit portfolio while paying rent to parents and living at home? Dr. Lautz says that's a good question! What about people working in the gig economy? Monica says we need to research that. [11:58] Dr. Lautz says there are fewer sales at the lower price points. She thinks that translates into fewer properties at lower price points. She is seeing growth in the luxury homes, or $1 million and up, sector. Home prices keep going up. Homes at lower price points may not be move-in ready. [13:00] An issue for first-time homebuyers is that lower-priced homes are not move-in-ready. First-time homebuyers are buying the oldest homes, in the worst condition, where they need to put in remodeling costs. That costs money. Unless you can DIY very confidently, you may have to hire someone to fix it. [13:27] That may not be the best use of money for a cash-strapped first-time homebuyer. [14:14] Dr. Lautz sees rental prices in a much better situation than in the last couple of years. In 2022, there were bidding wars for rental units. So then builders built a lot of high-end multi-family properties to meet the demand. Rental prices for a new lease have come down from where they were. [16:10] Dr. Lautz speaks of people wanting nicer amenities in their rental, while they save to buy a home. [16:42] We're also seeing a growth in built-for-rent single-family homes. In communities where ten properties are being built, one of those single-family homes is just for rent. Builders understand there's growth there as the age of first-time homebuyers goes up and families want to move into homes. [17:38] Dr. Lautz says we need more new construction. Builder sentiment has retreated in the last couple of months. Builders say the underbuilding has happened because of the lack of skilled labor, the lack of land, permitting costs, and the lack of supplies. [18:12] When we look at it as a nationwide whole, we're short about five million homes in the U.S. We need to build that amount of homes to meet the pent-up demand that we have. [18:51] Dr. Lautz says that in the last month, newer homes are within $100 of an existing home as a national median. If a new home seller has a rate buydown program to attract buyers, that could be a sweet spot for first-time homebuyers, working with a REALTOR® and representation, of course. [20:01] Monica talks about the value of working with a REALTOR® when buying a new home, to help with anything that could go wrong. An experienced agent who's done new construction deals can help you watch for things and ask better questions. Be sure to get an inspector in the process. [20:57] Dr. Lautz loves talking about single buyers. When we look at these trends, we see a reflection of the U.S. There are fewer married couples in the home-buying market. We're seeing a lot of single women. Dr. Lautz is impressed by single women. They're a quarter of first-time homebuyers. [21:21] As seniors in the market, single women are outperforming. This is also true for Gen Z. A first time homebuyer single woman is buying on a lower household income, saving for a longer period, and purchasing her first home; it's important to her. [22:03] Single women as homebuyers are more likely to be single moms. They're also more likely to purchase multi-generational homes. Perhaps they have an elderly relative with them. They buy to remove the unknowns. Knowing the school district. Knowing they don't have to worry about a landlord. [22:45] Dr. Lautz sees single men first-time homebuyers moving because they have a job change or are in retirement. She's not seeing many single men actively in the market. They have been about 10 or 11% of the market since the 1980s. [23:24] Monica cites Think and Grow Rich, about money as a motivator for men. She notes Think and Grow Rich for Women came out more recently, focusing on the complex motivators for women. Monica suggests asking men about their long-term goals and how homebuying increases their net worth. [24:11] Monica says there are a lot of men and women of all ages who do want to get married but are struggling to find a partner. Having a house and a sense of stability may be an attractive factor. [25:44] Dr. Lautz says the majority of buyers now are repeat buyers. Their median age is 61 years. Forty years ago, the median age would have been 36 years old, Baby Boomers have a lot of cash from their housing equity. They want to move to be closer to their grandchildren or healthcare. [26:38] Dr. Lautz says the NAR asked repeat home buyers what motivated them to move, and they say it's downsizing, but the data shows they're downsizing 100 square feet, if that. They're going into a newer, nicer space but not necessarily downsizing. Monica says it may be downsizing their yard. [27:10] Some of them are moving into city centers, suburbs, or small towns, but someplace where they have amenities or where they don't have to do outdoor upkeep. When they purchase at age 61, they're planning on living there for 15 or 20 years. Aging in place is probably their intention. [27:45] Monica talks about some features of 55-plus communities, with group activities, crafts, hobbies, and making music together. Monica visited a community with parties. She went to one of the parties. The band members were in their sixties and seventies. There was a great community and lots of activity. [28:36] Dr Lautz thinks these communities are adapting to what Baby Boomers want, and it's different from past generations at the same age. People are thriving and living longer and are healthier longer. [29:16] Dr. Lautz has comments about pets. Pets are a $152 billion business in the U.S. Sixteen percent of homebuyers said their pet will be a factor in their home-buying decision. The neighborhood has to be walkable, the yard has to be fenced, and the grooming center and vet have to be close. [30:39] REALTORS® can talk to their clients about a "catio" or wide enough windowsills for cats, where to put the litterbox, or other pet-related topics. [32:01] Dr. Lautz's final word: It's an interesting market. We're seeing a lot of changes, whether it's demographics, or seeing the all-time high of the all-cash buyer, or the struggle of first-time homebuyers. Keep your pulse on all of the changes because it is a changing market. [32:17] Please check on our research, it's a huge NAR benefit. It often goes under the radar. The easiest way to check it out is to follow NAR Research on every social channel: LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, X; we are everywhere that you are. [32:34] Follow us and you can get the latest and greatest infographics, as well, that you can share with your clients. [32:39] Monica adds that we all need some social media tools so you can go follow NAR Research and share all their infographics. Somebody's doing the work for you to create things for you to share. Awesome! [32:51] Thank you so much, Dr. Jessica Lautz, for being with us here today and giving us the latest and greatest scoop! [33:01] I want to remind you again of all the learning opportunities at Learning.realtor. Go over there and see what course you might need to fill in any gaps that you have about seniors, first-time homebuyers, or mortgages. There are so many great courses there. New construction… [33:19] For almost everything we've talked about, you can find a class over there. If you can't find it in person, you can find it online at Learning.realtor. Thank you for joining us for Part 2! [33:29] I'm Monica Neubauer for NAR's Center for REALTOR® Development. Now, go out there and sell some more houses, everybody! Tweetables: "It's a highlight of my job at NAR. … Boots on the ground, what's going on in all these local markets; what REALTORS® are feeling and what the pulse is. It's important. You can get the survey data but talking to people and getting the vibes is really important." — Dr. Jessica Lautz "It's a different type of first-time home buyer. … Their down-payment sources are different. They're more likely to use financial assets; we haven't seen that as high. … Stocks, 401(k), cryptocurrency, even. Still using the bank of Mom and Dad." — Dr. Jessica Lautz "When we look at it as a nationwide whole, we're short about five million homes in the U.S. We need to build that amount of homes to meet the pent-up demand that we have." — Dr. Jessica Lautz "If a new home seller has a rate buydown program to attract buyers, that could be a sweet spot for you, working with an agent who is a REALTOR® and representation, of course, to make sure you are fully represented in that transaction." — Dr. Jessica Lautz "It's an interesting market. We're seeing a lot of changes, whether it's demographics, or the all-time high of the all-cash buyer, or the struggle of first-time homebuyers. Keep your pulse on all of the changes because it is a changing market." — Dr. Jessica Lautz Guest Links: Dr. Jessica Lautz, is Deputy Chief Economist and Vice President of Research at the National Association of REALTORS®. NAR Resource Links ABR® Accredited Buyer's Representative Additional Links: [email protected] Crdpodcast.REALTOR Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered Host Information: Monica Neubauer Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR® [email protected] MonicaNeubauer.com FranklinTNBlog.com Monica's Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks Guest Bio Dr. Jessica Lautz is the Deputy Chief Economist and Vice President of Research at the National Association of REALTORS®. She has been with NAR since 2007. The core of her research focuses on analyzing trends for both NAR members and housing consumers. She is in demand as a speaker and by major media outlets to provide commentary on the real estate market. She has testified before Congress on behalf of NAR. She also volunteers at Nottingham Trent University as an industry fellow mentoring real estate graduate students, is a committee chair at the National Association of Business Economics, bakes birthday cakes for underserved youth with Cake4Kids, and sits on the board of the Food Recovery Network. Dr. Lautz has been recognized by Housing Wire's Women of Influence and RISMedia's Newsmaker award. Jessica received her Doctorate in Real Estate from Nottingham Trent University in the United Kingdom. She also holds a Master's in Public Policy from American University and undergraduate degrees in Political Science and Law and Justice from Central Washington University.

Welcome, friends to the Center for REALTOR® Development podcast from the National Association of REALTORS®. I am so glad you are joining me and today's guest, Dr. Jessica Lautz from NAR. Dr. Lautz is the Deputy Chief Economist and Vice President of Research at the National Association of REALTORS®. I love, love, love my data friends and I always learn things to help me and my clients. These trends are so huge when talking with our clients and preparing ourselves, as well as just getting in the nitty gritty because our clients are looking at that national market but we're also in the local market. I'm so excited to talk today about how we put those two things together. We are releasing this interview in two episodes. This is Part 1. [1:16] Welcome, Jessica! What are the hot topics you are seeing that are important and different? Let's give our listeners a preview of what we're going to discuss in these two episodes, 110 and 111. [1:36] Jessica says the real estate market is divided into two markets. We have an all-time high of all cash home buyers with cash from housing equity. At the same time, we have an all-time low of first-time home buyers. [1:58] Everybody's demographics are changing and buyers are adapting to the real estate market at hand. We're going to go over fundamentals and dig into some demographics, too. [2:18] Did anybody expect these demographic changes? Some unexpected things are going on in the world. [2:27] When we look at the real estate market, we know it is a tough market. Inventory is still extremely limited, even though it's jumping and we're seeing rises in housing inventory. We're still under February of 2020 when the housing market went bananas! We know that it's a difficult market to get into. [2:55] Home sales in 2023, 2024, and the first quarter of 2025 have been the lowest since 1995. This is striking because we have 75 million more people in this country than we did in 1995. Home sales volume being at the same level as in 1995 doesn't make a lot of sense. [4:06] We have more family units that tend to be smaller. We need more homes. We have seen young adults doubling up with parents and older relatives doubling up with their adult children. We know we have a lot of pent-up demand in the housing market from those young adults trying to leave the nest. [4:39] We're going to talk a lot more about them and the first-time home buyer option in our second episode, look at the demographics, and some possible solutions for young adult home buyers. [4:50] With the low number of transactions, we don't see the number of real estate agents shrinking. That's unexpected. It's an incredibly competitive and dynamic industry. You have to show your value, and what you can do for a client seller, or buyer. It's very difficult and it's growing. [5:30] Dr. Lautz was in three cities last week, talking to REALTORS® in Lansing, MI, Nashville, TN, and Orlando, FL, three very different real estate markets. In each hotel, the person at the desk or a person in line told her they wanted to study for their real estate license. It's an attractive career path. [6:14] Monica told someone that the number of actual sales is down, but it is the kind of market where anybody willing to be creative and hustle can still get in. Dr. Lautz agrees. Everyone has a different business model Everybody has the niche market they develop over time. [6:46] Monica was an agent in 2008. There were a lot of foreclosures, so foreclosure agents were getting a disproportionate amount of business. Monica took on some side work to stay in the business. The whole country was economically challenged. It felt so different to Monica than right now. [7:22] Jobs are at a good level. Unemployment is at reasonable levels. Dr. Lautz says jobs are important for home sale activity. Interest rates have been stable recently in the mid-6% range. Mortgage delinquencies are low because people need to have good finances to get a mortgage loan. [9:17] Even someone in an unfortunate situation where they are forced to sell will probably get some cash out of their house. [9:40] Dr. Lautz says that in more than four-fifths of the markets, home prices keep going up. They are going up by double digits in some markets. It's a result of the lack of available inventory. Nationwide existing home sale prices are higher for each month than the NAR has ever seen in previous years. [10:20] Prices differ in markets around the country. In some markets, people bid up home prices during the pandemic and there has been an easing of prices in some of those areas. In Austin, home prices went up 45% year-over-year. There has been an easing there. Homeowners are in a winning situation. [11:13] In the pandemic, we borrowed buyers from the future. During the pandemic, people suddenly and unexpectedly decided to move while mortgage interest rates were lower. A lot of people either don't have a home mortgage or are in a low-interest-rate mortgage. They have no intention of moving. [12:19] There are a lot of people who are just trying to make it work, even though they would be in a better situation if they moved. [12:32] Mortgage interest rates in the high sixes are a full percentage point below the historical average since 1971. Some people are sitting on enough equity that if they used it for a down payment, they could be in a better financial situation. [13:06] If agents called all of their past clients to discuss the situation, and those clients talked to their mortgage lender to find out what their options are, people would find out they have more options than they realized. [13:44] Do people in their first home understand the trade that can be made now? Do they understand the equity that they're sitting on? The housing equity gains we've had in the last few years are very unusual. [13:56] From 2020 to 2024, we saw a 50% increase in price appreciation, nationally. In some states, it's topping 70%. These homeowners are sitting on a lot of cash. Many of them could be in a better situation if they made that move. Monica points out there are more options than people think. [14:55] Dr. Lautz speaks of the many all-cash buyers in this market, for more than two years, now, topping more than a quarter of the market. There are a lot of people who can make these housing trades or put down extremely sizable down payments because of the housing equity they earn. [15:13] Half of older Baby Boomers and nearly 40% of younger Boomers in their 60s are putting down all cash. They know the value of home ownership and they're making housing trades. [15:29] Monica's message to the younger people: If you can get the house, get the house. Who knows where you're going to be in 10 years? Over time, even if there's a little bit of a down payment, the value keeps going up. [15:46] Dr. Lautz hopes that wages will go up also, but that's guesswork. [16:03] Monica discusses the U.S. credit rating downgrade of May 2025. When the U.S. credit rating goes down, stuff happens in the bond market, and then that affects the interest rate. [16:33] Dr. Lautz says NAR is reporting that there have been a lot of investors in the bond market who have decided not to invest but to sell or move money into something else. That means that the 10-year Treasury goes up. Mortgage interest rates are closely aligned with the 10-year Treasury. [17:11] We have had about a 2% added interest rate. If the 10-year Treasury is at 5%, the 30-year fixed would go to 7%. The NAR forecast is that the 30-year fixed will be in the 6% range. It could touch 7% for a few days and then come back down into the 6% range. They probably won't go down by much. [18:20] Be sure that any buyer you are working with is in close contact with their mortgage broker. The broker will lock in the best rate they can get on that day. They will be watching rates more closely than a buyer has time to. Working with that expert is incredibly important. [18:55] Dr. Lautz notes that the use of FHA and VA loans has gone down. How many people are aware of these low-down-payment options that are out there for buyers? They do have a different interest rate than what you could see for a conventional loan product. You need a smaller down payment. [19:36] Something that goes under the radar is the low-down-payment options in your community for teachers, nurses, first responders, and just first-time home buyers overall. Many buyers and potential buyers nothing about these programs that can help first-time home buyers to get into the market easier. [20:24] Monica advises agents not to make assumptions about buyers and not to assume the lender is making all the options available to your first-time home buyer. If inventory is not moving, sellers want to see offers. [20:53] Dr. Lautz says now is a good opportunity for first-time buyers, because of the recent 6% rate range, more housing inventory coming onto the market, and the lock-in effect of repeat buyers. First time home buyers stand a chance because they're not overwhelmed by repeat buyers. [21:14] Being able to come into the market, see several homes in their price range, look at the homes for more than 15 minutes, and have a conversation with the seller through their agents. [21:35] Homes are selling quickly but there are four months of inventory on the market. Dr. Lautz says most homes are selling in under a month. Buyers generally have a few days to make up their minds. We could not say that a couple of years ago! [22:23] Dr. Lautz explains capital gains on home equity. This will be one of the top issues of the REALTORS®' Legislative Meeting. The advocacy team, led by Shannon McGann is in talks with legislators to adjust the capital gains limit with inflation above where it has been stuck for decades. [23:39] The public doesn't understand the current capital gains deduction and needs to be educated by agents about it. [23:59] Thinking of people who are aging in place, is their home working for them? Are they able to stay in that home with 14 stairs in the long run? For a lot of people, the answer is no. But they may be limiting themselves as they think their tax bill to sell will be too high. It may not be as much as they think. [24:32] Making sure that you're talking to the tax experts who know all of that is incredibly important. Sellers need to understand what they are going to be taxed on. [24:47] So many great topics for our agents to take and talk to their sphere about! Newsletter fodder! All kinds of great things to help educate the public about! [24:58] This has been a great conversation with Dr. Jessica Lautz. Thank you so much! We're going to do another episode, so check back in when that's released. [25:07] For my listeners, I want to remind you of all the learning opportunities at Learning.REALTOR. You can access so many courses there and each month, there are specials if you want to get a deal. We hope you'll join us for Part 2 with Dr. Jessica Lautz from NAR. [25:24] I'm Monica Neubauer for NAR's Center for REALTOR® Development. Thank you so much, Dr. Lautz. [25:31] All right, folks! Now, go out there and sell some more houses! Find them if you need to! We'll see you soon! Tweetables: "When we look at the real estate market, we know it is a tough market. Inventory is still extremely limited, even though it's jumping, even though we're seeing rises in housing inventory. We know that we're still under February of 2020 when the housing market went bananas!" — Dr. Jessica Lautz "What we have seen is that we have a large number of people who are doubling up, young adults with parents. We also have a large number of older relatives who are doubling up, too, with their adult children." — Dr. Jessica Lautz "You have to show your value. You have to be out there showing what you can do for a client to make sure that you can get the listing or you can work with that buyer. And it is very difficult." — Dr. Jessica Lautz "There are a lot of people who are just trying to make it work, even though they would be in a better situation if they moved." — Dr. Jessica Lautz "When we look at FHA and VA loans, the use has gone down, unfortunately. I wonder how many people are aware of these low-down-payment options that are out there. They do have a different interest rate than what you could see for a conventional loan product." — Dr. Jessica Lautz Guest Links: Dr. Jessica Lautz, Deputy Chief Economist and Vice President of Research at the National Association of REALTORS®. NAR Resource Links ABR® Accredited Buyer's Representative Additional Links: [email protected] Crdpodcast.REALTOR Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered Host Information: Monica Neubauer Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR® [email protected] MonicaNeubauer.com FranklinTNBlog.com Monica's Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks Guest Bio Dr. Jessica Lautz is the Deputy Chief Economist and Vice President of Research at the National Association of REALTORS®. She has been with NAR since 2007. The core of her research focuses on analyzing trends for both NAR members and housing consumers. She is in demand as a speaker and by major media outlets to provide commentary on the real estate market. She has testified before Congress on behalf of NAR. She also volunteers at Nottingham Trent University as an industry fellow mentoring real estate graduate students, is a committee chair at the National Association of Business Economics, bakes birthday cakes for underserved youth with Cake4Kids, and sits on the board of the Food Recovery Network. Dr. Lautz has been recognized by Housing Wire's Women of Influence and RISMedia's Newsmaker award. Jessica received her Doctorate in Real Estate from Nottingham Trent University in the United Kingdom. She also holds a Master's in Public Policy from American University and undergraduate degrees in Political Science and Law and Justice from Central Washington University.

Evan Fuchs is back with us for Part 2 of our conversation on negotiation, a favorite topic of mine! Welcome back! Markets will shift, and changes are happening. We need to remember the core tenets and basics of good negotiation while remembering that the details change from client to client. Some of you work in different markets or states, and you need to be aware of those details to help you negotiate specifically for what you and your client need. Negotiation is one of those significant topics I suggest we learn about constantly. Evan Fuchs is a 28-year award-winning REALTOR® and industry leader from Bullhead City, Arizona. Evan and I discuss training, and we go into one book with four tenets that can help us create win-win scenarios or at least manage the situations with a good attitude. Sometimes, operating on those principles helps us not to become so emotionally involved. There is always more going on under the surface when negotiating. We're going to discuss how that affects your conversations as well. Let's join Evan to level up some negotiation today! [2:07] We are talking negotiation, and if you didn't hear our first episode, we hope you'll go back to that; we discussed things like the tangibles and intangibles of negotiation and why you need to have negotiation skills. We're giving you the tip of the iceberg. We'll talk later about some training you can get. [2:33] We will share some great principles in this episode and discuss how agents can improve their skills for negotiating on their behalf. We will need better communication in different spaces where the terms are unclear. [3:25] Evan cites two episodes Monica did with Brent Lancaster on the Buyer Representation Agreement to help negotiate with your clients. We agents must understand our obligations under the law, the Code of Ethics, and the agreements we must follow that create a frame for our business to stay inside. [4:05] Inside that frame, your business is your canvas. You can paint your canvas any way you want. You can say, "Here is how I'm going to run my business, as long as I'm not going out of bounds." Then you bring your business to the market, and it responds if it sees value in hiring you for what you bring. [4:31] It's not easy to set boundaries and know the rules of engagement. Brokers are deciding what parameters will be a win for their agents and brokerage firms. With some brokerage firms, your business canvas is not as significant. Bring your ideas and creativity back to your broker. [5:44] The difference between your business model and another agent's model is what will appeal to potential clients. Explaining what you charge and what the client gets from you will hire you. Be very intentional about understanding who your target audience is and what services you offer. [6:39] Evan says finding clients can't be an accident. You must be able to show you how to walk the walk and say, 'This is why I should be here representing you.' [6:51] Sometimes, in a client meeting or a class, however much she prepares, people will ask Monica an unexpected question for which she doesn't have a great answer. Evan says it's essential to give feedback to yourself on what worked and what didn't work, and then you iterate on that. Have a place to practice! [7:51] Hold scenarios or role-playing with partners in your office, coaches, or spouses. Practice the words and get feedback before you go live. Once you go live, measure what works and what doesn't, and then try again. It's a different ballgame for many people, and you might not get it right on the first try. [9:10] Evan talked with his college daughter about what's happening in real estate. It helped him see another perspective. That's always a win. [9:40] Preparation for negotiating is essential. Be intentional. What do they need? What value do you bring to the table? How are you communicating and connecting with them? How am I qualifying them? How are you communicating what working with you looks like? [10:21] If you do the preparation and get a win, you know it worked. If it went South, tell yourself to handle that differently next time. Over time, you work out systems where you are repeating success. Monica encourages you to learn even from your accomplishments. [10:56] Monica is confident and open-minded when she goes into a meeting. She listens to what their needs are instead of selling them on herself. She wants to hear what they're saying, even if she doesn't have the answer for them. [11:29] Evan says if you want to improve relationships with other people and be a better communicator, listening, hearing what they say, asking questions, giving feedback, and being interested is where rich relationships come from. [11:49] Sometimes, just listening and being there, you'll hear the person tell you what they need from you. If you were too busy talking, selling, or presenting, you might have missed that and missed out on a great client. [12:06] Monica reminds agents that going through their broker or association's paperwork provides a structure. It's like a third party in the negotiation. [12:43] Evan talks about appealing to different learning styles. It's always better to ask somebody a question than to tell them something. It's also better to show them something than to tell them something. Try to mix those things. Evan would want you to show him the process visually if he were buying. [13:37] If Evan were selling, he would also want you to walk him through the marketing process with visuals. [13:52] You must use leave-behind visuals to show people the market conditions for buying and selling. The visuals can negotiate for you in your absence. [14:37] Monica asks the public to interview more than one agent so they see different styles, and it will be easier to recognize they have a choice between different kinds of agents. Leave-behind items are hugely important, especially if they are amazing materials. Your professionalism is visible in the materials. [15:18] Be confident as an agent that you belong at the table and believe in yourself. It wasn't meant to be if the client didn't pick you up. Confidence comes through preparation, knowledge, and experience. [16:21] As a new agent, Monica went to every class at her association for two years to gain knowledge and confidence. Evan didn't take classes at first but then took a GRI class. After two days, he realized he had bought lots of someone's experience, saving him time. It changed his attitude about learning. [17:55] Monica says not all classes will be perfect but asks you to find the instructors that give you value. [18:24] There are many helpful books on negotiation. Monica and Evan agree that one book they love is Getting to Yes. Evan has never found a better book to learn negotiation. It teaches four principles of negotiating. The authors were part of the Harvard Negotiation Project, and these are proven principles. [19:28] The principles apply well to real estate negotiation. They support the win-win mindset. You're trying to collaborate with the other party without giving up what's most important to you. [19:58] The first of the four principles of Getting to Yes is to separate the people from the problem. Very often, the problem in the way is a people problem. You have to solve the people problem before you can solve the problem you're negotiating. [21:29] When an agent says their client won't go for that, Evan asks what the agent thinks their client won't go for, why the agent thinks that, and then tries to solve it with the agent. If it's a price, look at comps together and discuss what constitutes a fair price. [22:25] What you don't want to do is defend it and try to convince somebody who's dug their heels in. Go back to common ground, bring the temperature down first, and find out why they're reacting that way. Set your ego aside. Your job is to save the relationship with this person so you can get to the finish line. [23:04] The second principle focuses on interests, not positions. Under every position (what), a statement is an interest (why). The position has one solution. The interest has endless solutions. Understanding why someone takes a position creates new options for working together to find the best path to win. [24:23] When somebody says what they want, ask them why or try to find out why if you can't ask them directly. Once you know the underlying interest, you have many more ways to deal with it that have nothing to do with the position. Monica covers this principle in three to four hours in her negotiation classes. [25:00] Monica adds that when she needs to understand the why, she loves the phrases "Tell me more" or "Help me understand" to get them to tell her the why without her asking directly. Evan suggests checking for understanding with, "It sounds like you're saying …" to confirm. [25:37] The same principle applies to negotiating with the buyer. Find the why under any positions they take on what they are looking for in a house. The value of a buyer's agent is to get to the why and expand the options for their clients. [26:43] The third principle is to invent options for mutual gain. Don't view this as a competition, but as building a relationship. You'll sit on the same table and look at the problem together. This is where all the pieces and intangibles come together. This is the time for options and value negotiation. [28:22] The fourth principle insists on using objective criteria. This may need a third party, such as an appraiser, to provide an objective value. MLS comps and public records are objective. Ask, "If we can come up with a fair price, do you think we can make a deal?" Then, you bring in your CMA. [29:24] When you submit an offer to another agent, include your comparative market analysis that supports the offer. Review it with them over the phone so that it makes sense; it's not just an arbitrary number. On your end, listen with an open mind when you review objective criteria. [30:04] I hope our listeners recognize how much more there is to negotiation than just conversing and putting terms on paper. [30:23] Evan's final word: "I took a class from Ed Hatch 20 years ago on negotiating, and he said something that has stuck with me ever since, which is 'The negotiation begins long before the amateur negotiator realizes it.'" [30:42] "As professional negotiators, our preparation, our conversations, what we've done to get our clients to understand their negotiations; the person we're negotiating with may start when they get the offer, but we started long ago. Do the work, do the prep. What a tremendous advantage that gives you!" [31:45] Thank you so much to Evan Fuchs for sharing his wisdom with us, learned over many years of training and action with real people and situations. [31:53] You can find more opportunities to learn about negotiation at Learning.REALTOR. Evan Fuchs and Lynn Madison have micro-courses there, and you can also link to the Real Estate Negotiation Expert Class. Please attend some local negotiation classes through your association or online. [32:20] Once you start learning about negotiation and looking at these opportunities more objectively, you're going to find opportunities for you to learn in your everyday situation. I hope you can find those and share them. It will improve your business. [32:38] Thanks for joining us! I'm Monica Neubauer for the Center for REALTOR® Development. And I hope you keep busy out there selling lots of properties! Tweetables: "It can't be an accident. You have to be able to show and walk the walk. 'This is why I should be here representing you.' That's the way that I look at it." — Evan Fuchs "That's where we are right now. It's a different ballgame for a lot of people, and they're not going to get it right, necessarily, on the first try." — Evan Fuchs "If you want to improve relationships with other people and be a better communicator with them, listening, hearing what they're saying, asking questions, giving feedback, and being interested is where rich relationships come from." — Evan Fuchs "Confidence is the root of most of these conversations; my confidence as an agent that I believe I should be here. I bring something worth being at this table. Therefore, I'm going to be a better negotiator about it." — Evan Fuchs "It doesn't cost me anything to be nice to you. If it's important to you that the other person is nice, I just expanded the pie a little bit by throwing in some intangibles." — Evan Fuchs Guest Links: Evan Fuchs, Broker/Owner of Bullhead Laughlin Realty, Speaker, Educator Episode 100, "Explaining the Buyer Agreement and How to Use it Effectively with Brent Lancaster: Part 1" Episode 101, "Explaining the Buyer Agreement and How to Use it Effectively with Brent Lancaster: Part 2" Getting to Yes: Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In, by Roger Fisher, William L. Ury, and Bruce Patton NAR Resource Links ABR® Accredited Buyer's Representative Additional Links: [email protected] Crdpodcast.REALTOR Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered Host Information: Monica Neubauer Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR® [email protected] MonicaNeubauer.com FranklinTNBlog.com Monica's Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks Guest Bio Evan Fuchs ABR, CRB, CRS, GRI, RENE, RSPS, SRS, e-PRO Evan Fuchs speaks nationally on leadership, sales, strategic planning, and team building. A recognized industry leader with 28 years of experience, Evan is a past state president, four-time REALTOR® of the Year, and has been the broker/owner of Bullhead Laughlin Realty in Bullhead City, AZ, since 1999. Evan combines his experience in business and leadership with a down-to-earth style to deliver engaging and actionable programs. In addition to designations and certifications, such as the Accredited Buyer Representative, Certified Residential Broker, and Real Estate Negotiation Expert, Evan presents and develops custom programs, including the Arizona Leadership Training Academy. He is also a John Maxwell Certified Leadership Trainer. A proud dad, accomplished concertgoer, and lifelong learner, Evan loves collaborating with individuals and teams who aspire to produce their best work.

Today's topic is so essential: negotiation! It has always been important. As our markets have been shifting and industry changes are happening, we need to go back to remembering the basic and core tenets of good negotiation while also understanding the nuanced parts of that shift within the market and the specific needs of our clients. My guest today, Evan Fuchs, is a 28-year award-winning REALTOR® and industry leader from Bullhead City, Arizona. Negotiation is one of those topics we need to learn about all the time. Unless you're writing a book on negotiation, I suggest more education is helpful. I love learning from skilled negotiators wherever I come across their books or meet them, like Evan or even some of my clients, who teach me new ideas and angles to consider in my negotiation. Evan and I both believe in the long-term value of win-win negotiations in real estate. Evan shares insights on building relationships and finding mutually beneficial outcomes. We discuss the importance of offering options, how crucial it is to get professional training, and the value of tangible and intangible negotiation elements. Evan will tell you what those are. Let's learn together! We are releasing this interview in two episodes. This is Part 1. [2:04] I am so glad to have Evan Fuchs with us today on the podcast! Welcome, Evan! [2:12] Evan is one of the very successful nice guys! If you ever get to meet Evan, talk to him. He's delightful, smart, and friendly. We're going to talk about negotiation, and he is the perfect person to have with us to talk about relationship negotiation because he's kind and respectful. [2:33] We will discuss a win-win negotiation atmosphere and why that's good. Evan, you're a 28-year veteran, broker-owner, board member extraordinaire, association president, and winner! (Evan says that introduction will put a pep in his step!) [3:05] Monica describes her impostor-fighter shelf of awards and statues that remind her that she's awesome at her job and connected. She recommends you have a shelf like that, and whenever you need a boost, look at your shelf and say, 'Yeah, I got this'! [3:35] Evan heard Monica talk about the importance of celebrating in one of her podcast episodes. Evan is totally about celebrating, even little victories. [3:52] The win-win negotiation model is a mindset that negotiators adopt. Instead of trying to compete against somebody, they take responsibility for building a good relationship with the other negotiator to work together to find good outcomes for everybody. [4:47] Sometimes, one party does get a better deal, but can you do something to let the other party feel like they also have a good outcome? [5:14] Dan says that options give us power. If I have the myopic view that this is the outcome that's good for me, and I can't get you to agree with that, then the deal's dead, but if we can work together and try to find other ways, then we have a chance of keeping the deal alive and getting to the closing table. [5:42] It's about how to help you get what you want so I can get what I want. Let's create many ways to get there and find the best one. [5:51] Everybody wants a deal. You may be working with a client looking at a transaction like a war. You have to help them find options and negotiate so both parties are happy with the outcome. Monica reminds agents that we must train ourselves and our clients to negotiate well. [7:06] Evan says that one out of four buyers want their buyer's agent, above everything else, to negotiate for them. They would rather you be a good negotiator than be good at finding them a house. Monica invites you to improve your negotiating skills. Promote them as part of your value. [8:43] In this episode, we will keep the buyer's agent negotiating with the seller's agent for their clients as our context. In Episode 2, we will discuss the agents negotiating with their clients for various things. [10:09] Evan explains the tangibles and intangibles of negotiation. The top-line purchase price is tangible. There can also be a concession further down in the contract. That is also tangible and measurable. The things you put in the blanks on a contract refer to something measurable and tangible. [11:21] Price is just one element of the negotiation. Think of the price, terms, and everything else involved in the negotiation as representing a value package. Look at the bottom-line number and what you exchange to get to that number. That's when you deal with both tangibles and intangibles. [12:23] Value negotiating is where I offer something to you that's of higher value to you than it is to me. This could be like moving up the closing date if you are in a hurry. We trade it for something of low value to you but high value to me. That creates a win. [14:00] One of Monica's favorite negotiations was between a buyer who offered under the listing price and a seller who wanted the list price. She wrote a contract with an expiration time that if the seller could get the list price from another buyer within a week, they could do that; otherwise, they would accept this offer. [15:41] Evan considers that a smart, creative negotiation. Monica's client did get the house after a week, while the seller had time to find another offer, which did not come. [16:08] Evan notes that considering the options takes time. To develop that kind of strategy, be prepared, know what you're doing, and spend time with the market, the property, and the client. Spend time, especially with your client, so you don't miss the options that may be meaningful to them. [17:14] Monica thinks some agents don't realize that the agent-to-agent relationship is valuable. The buyer's agent has some influence when the seller's agent is looking at multiple offers. The relationship history matters both in large markets and small ones. [19:13] Monica and Evan discuss how personal property becomes a negotiating point. Monica says agents in Tennessee must let their buyers and sellers negotiate personal property. Evan believes the furniture owner places a higher value on it than the buyer. [20:42] Monica cautions her listeners that if you negotiate anything beyond appliances and attached things, make sure you talk to your broker and know how that works in your state and local market. [21:11] Evan says intangibles are things that can't be measured, that you can't quantify. Is this a fair deal? How are you treating me? Are you ethical? Intangibles can be felt as opposed to being measured. Every negotiator has both tangible and intangible interests in every negotiation. We're human, and we care. [21:56] Adding intangible value to a negotiation does add value even though you can't put a dollar on it. Build a personal relationship with your client. Know what's essential to the other person and spend time with that. That adds value. Treating the other person might get you a concession in the contract. [23:15] Everybody has things that are important to them. So, the more you know the other party… use it to your client's advantage, which is your job. You owe that to your clients to do that, as long as it's ethical and honest. We need to put everything into it that we can. Adding those intangibles is part of it. [23:50] Monica shares another negotiating example. She called an agent who had just lost the family dog. She asked, "How can I help prepare the paperwork for our deal? I see you're having a difficult day." If Monica finds out that an agent needs something, and she can fill it quickly, why wouldn't she offer? [24:58] Evan calls that win-win language, offering to work as a team. It doesn't take anything away from your client. It's also called being a good human! [25:59] If you're not people-oriented and trying to negotiate with someone who is, it's like you're bringing friction to the table. You've got to take responsibility and adjust how you show up for this person and make them feel more comfortable. [26:16] Because Monica's a people person, sometimes she has to tell herself to "zip it" and do her job because she sees the other person doesn't want to chat today. [27:06] Evan talks about the negotiation environment. You have to know the numbers; you have to know your market. As a market professional seeking to get paid to represent clients, you have to know it. Evan refers to the pandemic lockdown and how, after that, buyers went gangbusters. [27:47] There were way too many buyers trying to buy the same houses. That led to the seller's market. It's our job to help our clients, and sometimes the other negotiators, understand the market dynamics so they understand their negotiating position. Once they do, then you can move on to strategy. [28:15] Our opportunity to shine is helping our clients develop a negotiating strategy once they understand their position. Evan gives the example of explaining to a buyer what it looks like to buy in a seller's market with multiple offers, bidding wars, and buyers getting creative to sweeten the pot. [29:06] Before you start showing houses, your buyer needs to understand that so they know how to behave once they get into the market if they want to buy. When the right house comes up at the right moment, they need to know how the market affects their position. [29:34] Monica now calls the market an artificial buyer's market. In some towns, at some price points, houses stay on the market for a little while longer. But we're not at that four-to-six-month range for most people. [29:51] In an extreme market, where one party is at an extreme disadvantage, and the other is at an extreme advantage, negotiators can help look for a win-win. It won't be in the money because the extreme advantage is there. That's where niceness and empathy make all the difference. [31:01] Evan comments that the win in an extreme buyer's market is just selling your house. In an extreme seller's market, the buyer gets the house. You won't be looking for the best deal in either situation. [31:23] Once you accept those negotiation parameters and start trying to find a house, everything else is on the table. "I know I'm not going to get a great deal here, but here's what else is important to me." Knowing what's important on the other side might get you the house or the sale. [31:50] We must get through the negotiator to get to the decision-makers. You've got to get the other agent "on your side." Sometimes, we have to coach them through their job and deliver that information to their client in a way that gets their client those secondary wins. [32:38] When Evan and I return in our next episode, we will discuss the conversations between the agents and their clients. That's a different negotiation environment. Join us on the next one! [32:55] Evan's final word: "Right now, so much is changing! Negotiating is an important part of navigating these changes, whether we are negotiating to get hired on either side or helping the clients who hire us navigate what the negotiations will look like now that we have different practices." [33:21] It's a whole new ball game that creates opportunities for people to step in and thrive! I get kind of excited about having these conversations! I'm looking forward to continuing on the next one with you!" [33:39] Thank you so much to Evan Fuchs for sharing his wisdom with us! You can find more opportunities to learn about negotiation at Learning.REALTOR. There are micro-courses there, taught by Evan and by Lynn Madison. [33:51] You can also link to the real estate negotiation expert certification class from there. Please attend some negotiation classes. Your associations are offering lots of opportunities right now. If it's not your local one, you may be able to travel a little bit and find one nearby. [34:09] Also, there are some great books on it. Read some books or watch some of the amazing online videos to help teach you great negotiation tools. [34:17] As you're moving through the changes in the industry, don't miss the opportunity to learn from your experiences as you're having conversations with your clients, your friends, and your family, hear what they're saying, and that will also help you be more prepared. [34:33] Thank you so much for joining us! Come back and join us for Part 2. I'm Monica Neubauer for the Center for REALTOR® Development, and I hope you are busy out in the field selling lots of properties! Tweetables: "While most people focus on price, it's just one element of the negotiation. So we want to think more about value. What does that price plus the other terms and everything else involved in the negotiation represent as a value package?" — Evan Fuchs "Everybody has things that are important to them. So, the more you know the other party, the more use those conversations to your client's advantage, which is your job. You owe that to your clients to do that, as long as it's ethical and honest." — Evan Fuchs "If you're somebody who's not people-oriented, and you're trying to negotiate with someone who is, it's like you're bringing friction to the table. You've got to take responsibility and adjust how you show up for this person and make them feel more comfortable." — Evan Fuchs "Whether negotiating to get hired on either side or helping the clients who hire us navigate what the negotiations are going to look like now that we have different practices, it's a whole new ball game, and that creates the opportunity for people to step in and thrive!" — Evan Fuchs Guest Links: Evan Fuchs, Broker/Owner of Bullhead Laughlin Realty, Speaker, Educator NAR Resource Links ABR® Accredited Buyer's Representative Additional Links: [email protected] Crdpodcast.REALTOR Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education Training4RE.com — List of Classroom Courses from NAR and its affiliates CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered Host Information: Monica Neubauer Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR® [email protected] MonicaNeubauer.com FranklinTNBlog.com Monica's Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks Guest Bio Evan Fuchs ABR, CRB, CRS, GRI, RENE, RSPS, SRS, e-PRO Evan Fuchs speaks nationally on leadership, sales, strategic planning, and team-building. A recognized industry leader with 28 years of experience, Evan is a past state president, four-time REALTOR® of the Year, and has been the broker/owner of Bullhead Laughlin Realty in Bullhead City, AZ, since 1999. Evan combines his experience in business and leadership with a down-to-earth style to deliver engaging and actionable programs. In addition to designations and certifications, such as the Accredited Buyer Representative, Certified Residential Broker, and Real Estate Negotiation Expert, Evan presents and develops custom programs, including the Arizona Leadership Training Academy. He is also a John Maxwell Certified Leadership Trainer. A proud dad, accomplished concert-goer, and lifelong learner, Evan loves collaborating with individuals and teams who aspire to produce their best work.

We are in Part 2 of my conversation with Dan Weisman about AI in the real estate industry. Dan is a director of innovation strategy in the Strategic Business Innovation and Technology Group at the National Association of REALTORS®. In his role, he researches technology, strategizes what this tech may mean in the future, and builds relationships with tech leaders to better understand and drive innovation in the real estate space. This episode is where we get practical, starting with using generative AI instead of Google for searches. How would that help you? What do you think about that? We'll discuss software that is genuinely helpful for you in your business. We wrap up with virtual reality. As cool as it is, why do we not see it used more often? Dan gives us his insights. Let's join him! [1:24] I am so glad to have more time with Dan Weisman to learn more AI tips. In this episode, we are going to get into practical things! You may want to listen again later and get some of the apps if you're driving. We will link any apps we mention in the show notes. Look them up when you park. [1:50] In the first episode, we discussed plug-ins and research to help us understand what's available. [2:11] Dan Weisman is a Director of Innovation Strategy with the NAR. His team's focus is to look at and understand what technology is out there and help figure out how to drive innovation across the space to support membership in the industry. [3:33] Dan says the tech can be overwhelming. He does this full-time, and it seems something new every day if not every hour. You've got to be careful about not always chasing the shiny object. Many projects are getting built on generative AI products like ChatGPT and Gemini. [4:01] Dan's team is trying to focus on the pain points the NAR membership feels in their transactions and tie together the research and the relationships NAR is building with startups and big tech companies to help REALTORS® to be more efficient and productive. [4:36] REALTORS® are talking to Dan about how many phone calls they receive and constantly being on call for their clients. Some cool products use AI to help schedule tasks and calendar meetings, almost like an AI assistant. [5:44] Monica is ready for those products! She keeps busy keeping track of her schedule between her Google calendar, notebook calendar, and wall calendar. [6:39] If you missed Part 1, generative AI is a tool that recently became more available to the public to generate information and content using artificial intelligence behind the scenes. Dan calls it Google search on steroids. Instead of multiple web pages, it gives you a relatively concise answer. [7:11] You can plug information into it and ask for a response, and it will help formulate it in whatever way you want, with context and tone. It's for everyone. [7:56] Since ChatGPT launched, people have been talking about tech. Dan loves it! He's been trying to talk about tech with agents for five years! It's an opportunity for everyone to use a different type of AI product and service to free up some time to help them be more efficient. [9:17] Can Monica ask AI to orient her book in progress to another audience? Dan says yes, but it's a tool in its infancy. It will do a good job manipulating the information you put into it to satisfy your request. Its accuracy varies. Like any work you put out, pay attention to what it says. [10:50] If Monica sees that you just copied and pasted your listing from ChatGPT, from the many long adjectives and how they sound, she does not trust it. Generative AI makes things up. [11:50] When Dan gives presentations, he uses the example of providing the data for a listing to ChatGPT, and ChatGPT writes the listing description but gives it the wrong number of bathrooms. Luckily, Dan checked it. ChatGPT can do complex things and at the same time make silly mistakes. [12:37] Always edit a listing for mistakes and personalize it as you want it to sound. It's obvious when the human touch is missing. That is critical in real estate. [13:41] Monica uses AppSumo and Castmagic. Monica put a recording into Castmagic, which makes social media posts, transcripts, or show notes for a podcast. [14:15] There are many apps to take information, edit it, and simplify it for various content platforms. It reminds Dan of CliffsNotes. Monica mentions Blinkist. Whatever ChatGPT pushes out, ensure it is accurate and has the context and tone it should have. [16:17] Monica cites Otter, who takes notes in a meeting. When Monica sees the Otter notes from multiple people, she is overwhelmed by the quantity of information. Dan recommends focusing on your notes tool and tuning it to pull up the information you want. [17:26] One of the powers of generative AI is learning about you and what you are looking for as you communicate with it more. [18:34] When Dan gives a presentation about images, he'll take a photo of an iconic building, upload it to DALL-e by OpenAI, and ask it to remove the iconic thing. It usually takes 10 to 15 prompts to get it to do what he wants it to do. [19:41] In Chicago, he takes a picture of the Bean and asks DALL-e to remove the Bean from the photo. It takes 10 or 12 tries. He doesn't show all the variations. The photo stuff has a long way to go. Dan took a listing to Canva and asked it to create a flyer. The images looked computer-generated. [20:39] Dan says some real-estate-specific apps are doing a good job tweaking photos. Renovate AI and Reimagine Home are two big ones he's been looking at. You can take a photo of a room and request changes to it, and in seconds, you will get a couple of gen AI photo options as you requested. [25:47] Monica points out that many agents are leaning toward virtual staging, and it is a pet peeve for buyers who want to see the actual condition of the house. That is a misrepresentation, a Code of Ethics violation. For any gen AI images in the listing, label them clearly as such, as different ways to view things. [28:36] Agents must be responsible as an industry when it comes to utilizing these tools, to ensure that we don't dilute the value of what we're providing and the consumer's expectations when they show up to see a property. [29:24] Monica recommends an agent derive from home or at least look at the pictures and see them before taking a client to them. The agent can confirm if that mountainous landscape in the background exists. Dan adds that agents need to be transparent about using gen AI tools. [30:27] Monica asks about virtual reality and shares her experience of seeing a European condo in VR. [31:24] Dan says VR is tough. You need at least a $500 headset. Many people feel uncomfortable or nauseous with the headset. VR headsets are being used in new construction and development, where there is a budget to build a VR experience. It is all custom, so it is expensive. [32:22] With VR, since every house is different, there has not been an effective way to create an experience that would provide value for a reasonable cost. Augmented reality needs to come first. At some point, VR may become mainstream, but a price-efficient method to build it for a home is not yet available. [33:15] Monica and Dan share their pain about communicating with bots. Bots will get better the more we use them. Dan has had success with the Amazon bot on a product return. The opportunity in the real estate space is for virtual assistant bots. [35:44] Productive.AI summarizes your phone conversations locally without sharing them with the world. It will provide a list of the things you talked about to follow up. It is especially helpful if you are calling while driving. [36:24] There are more agent and broker needs for virtual assistants than bots. The virtual assistants can help collect information and summarize it. [37:20] Monica would like to see more agents providing FAQs or answering specific questions on their websites. Can a bot do that? Dan says that will come as generative AI matures. [39:48] Monica is looking forward to having her own C-3PO generative AI bot to be all these apps for her. [40:15] Dan's final word: When it comes to generative AI, I would tell everybody to try it. Do not try to jam technology into a problem that isn't a problem, and you make it a problem. Focus on what you do, how you run your business and how you communicate. Test generative AI to see if it can help you do your job better. [40:55] Dan also says to be open-minded, be thoughtful, and use gen AI just occasionally. Before you know it, it will be integrated into your everyday life, making you more efficient and productive. [41:18] Thanks again to Dan Weisman for joining us. I am so happy to hear a simple and helpful tech update. His focus on his work and on what he learns is what is important to us. He distills it down and makes it so easy. [41:34] I am so fortunate to host this podcast and get to ask all these smart and focused people whatever questions I have. So let me know if you have some questions, you would like to hear us address on the podcast! [41:46] I hope you're taking advantage of the great education being offered at Learning.REALTOR, especially the ABR® Class. We know that AI in every form is relevant to all parts of our business. If you do join classes in some live form, you'll get a better focus on what's up to date. [42:12] Things are happening so fast. You will get those from the instructor or possibly from other learners in the classroom. I am also learning from you when I come to a classroom. We all need to keep learning from each other. [42:24] So head over to Learning.REALTOR and see what is available there to match the needs of your business. If you have been listening for a bit, we would appreciate your feedback on this two-episode-per month format, as opposed to the one longer episode we used to do. [42:43] Our email address is in the show notes. Please give us your feedback. [42:48] Keep up the good work helping your clients do what they need and want to do in this shifting market. I'm Monica Neubauer for the Center for REALTOR® Development. Now go out there and sell some property! Tweetables: "Generative AI is a tool in its infancy. This is new. It will do a pretty good job of manipulating the information you put in to satisfy whatever request or requirements you have. … How accurate it is and how close it is to how you might want it always varies." — Dan Weisman "One of the powers of generative AI is learning of you and what you are looking for as you communicate with it more." — Dan Weisman "We have to be responsible as an industry when it comes to utilizing these tools." — Dan Weisman Guest Links: Dan Weisman, Director of Innovation Strategy at NAR ChatGPT Gemini AppSumo Castmagic CliffsNotes Blinkist Otter.ai Canva DALL-e OpenAI Renovate AI REimagine Home Productive.AI NAR Resource Links ABR® Accredited Buyer's Representative Additional Links: [email protected] Crdpodcast.REALTOR Learning.REALTOR — for NAR Online Education CRD.REALTOR — List of all courses offered Host Information: Monica Neubauer Speaker/Podcaster/REALTOR® [email protected] MonicaNeubauer.com FranklinTNBlog.com Monica's Facebook Page: Facebook.com/Monica.Neubauer Instagram: Instagram.com/MonicaNeubauerSpeaks Guest Bio Dan Weisman is a Director of Innovation Strategy within the Strategic Business, Innovation, & Technology group at the National Association of REALTORS®. In his role, he researches technology, strategizes on what this tech may mean in the future, and builds relationships with tech leaders to understand better and drive innovation in the real estate space. He is in the thick of thought leadership.