As When We All Get to Heaven wraps up, Christina sits down with series host Lynne Gerber and producer Siri Colum. They discuss how the church has changed, the value of fleeting queer spaces, and what a decade or more spent working on this story has meant to—and taught—them.
Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/outward-slates-lgbtq-podcast/id1425950706">Apple Podcasts</a> or <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/72e0xzkDWilSlqBh95MwHV">Spotify</a>, or visit <a href="https://slate.com/podcast-plus?utm_medium=link&amp;utm_campaign=plus_pod&amp;utm_content=Outward&amp;utm_source=show_notes">slate.com/outwardplus</a> for access wherever you listen.
Produced by Palace Shaw and Merritt Jacob. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a>

<description>As When We All Get to Heaven wraps up, Christina sits down with series host Lynne Gerber and producer Siri Colum. They discuss how the church has changed, the value of fleeting queer spaces, and what a decade or more spent working on this story has meant to—and taught—them.

Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen.

Produced by Palace Shaw and Merritt Jacob. 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>

Reflecting on a series coming to a close and an epidemic still unfolding.

As When We All Get to Heaven wraps up, Christina sits down with series host Lynne Gerber and producer Siri Colum. They discuss how the church has changed, the value of fleeting queer spaces, and what a decade or more spent working on this story has meant to—and taught—them.

Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen.

Produced by Palace Shaw and Merritt Jacob. 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A Postlude for 'When We All Get to Heaven'

In the final episode of When We All Get to Heaven, we catch up on what’s happened in the many years between the emergence of effective treatment for AIDS in the late ‘90s and the fall of 2025, when we recorded this episode. We linger on a moment back in June 1999, when Jim was still pastor and called on the church to remember that AIDS wasn’t over. Because—advances notwithstanding—it still isn’t over.   
For more on Gilbert Baker and the history of the rainbow flag see the  <a href="https://gilbertbaker.com/">Gilbert Baker Foundation</a>.
For more on Prep see San Francisco AIDS Foundation, <a href="https://www.sfaf.org/collections/beta/prep-facts-what-is-prep/">What is PrEP?</a> 
<a href="https://www.unaids.org/sites/default/files/media_asset/2023-unaids-global-aids-update_en.pdf">“The Path that Ends AIDS: 2023 UNAIDS Global Update”</a> outlines a possible end to the AIDS epidemic. 
 
The story of Jacob’s Ladder is in the book of Genesis chapter 28, verses 10-19.
The text for <a href="https://hymnary.org/text/this_is_the_day_this_is_the_day_that_th">“This is the Day that God Has Made”</a> is biblical with music by Leon C. Roberts.
<a href="https://hymnary.org/text/we_are_climbing_jacobs_ladder_we_are_cli">“We are Climbing Jacob’s Ladder”</a> is a traditional hymn.
<a href="https://hymnary.org/text/this_little_light_of_mine_im_gonna_let">“This Little Light of Mine”</a> – text traditional, music by Penelope Gneisen
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTYlkk9uie8">“Song of the Soul”</a> is by Cris Williamson and was sung by her at MCC San Francisco on April 24, 2000. 
For images and links about this episode visit <a href="https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-10">https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-10</a>.
When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit <a href="https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits">https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits</a>.
This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (<a href="http://www.hluce.org">www.hluce.org</a>), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (<a href="http://www.calhum.org">www.CalHum.org</a>).
Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor <a href="https://fjc.org/">FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds</a>.
The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco’s archive. It was performed by MCC-SF’s musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by <a href="https://domestic-bgm.org/barbara">Domestic BGM</a>.
Thanks to <a href="https://cfar.ucsf.edu/people/judith-auerbach">Dr. Judy Auerbach</a> of the University of California at San Francisco. 
Thanks to Sue Fulton for permission to use “This Little Light of Mine.” 
Thanks to Cris Williamson for permission to use “Song of the Soul.” 
Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the <a href="https://mccsf.org/">Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco</a> who made this project possible.  
Some links to good groups:
<a href="https://mccsf.org/">The Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco</a> – the congregation’s current website. 
<a href="https://www.mccchurch.org/landing.html">Metropolitan Community Churches</a> – the denomination of which MCC San Francisco is a part. 
<a href="https://www.sfaf.org/">San Francisco AIDS Foundation</a> – a place to seek information about HIV. 
<a href="https://www.poz.com/">POZ Magazine</a> – a place to learn everything else about HIV (information included).
<a href="https://saveaidsresearch.org/">Save AIDS Research</a> – their recent, epic 24 hours to Save Research conference with all the latest HIV research is available on YouTube through this site.   
<a href="https://lgbtqreligiousarchives.org/">LGBTQ Religious Archives Network</a> – the place to get lost in LGBTQ+ religious history. 
Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/outward-slates-lgbtq-podcast/id1425950706">Apple Podcasts</a> or <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/72e0xzkDWilSlqBh95MwHV">Spotify</a>, or visit <a href="https://slate.com/podcast-plus?utm_medium=link&amp;utm_campaign=plus_pod&amp;utm_content=Outward&amp;utm_source=show_notes">slate.com/outwardplus</a> for access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a>

<description>In the final episode of When We All Get to Heaven, we catch up on what’s happened in the many years between the emergence of effective treatment for AIDS in the late ‘90s and the fall of 2025, when we recorded this episode. We linger on a moment back in June 1999, when Jim was still pastor and called on the church to remember that AIDS wasn’t over. Because—advances notwithstanding—it still isn’t over.   

For more on Gilbert Baker and the history of the rainbow flag see the  Gilbert Baker Foundation.

For more on Prep see San Francisco AIDS Foundation, What is PrEP? 

“The Path that Ends AIDS: 2023 UNAIDS Global Update” outlines a possible end to the AIDS epidemic. 

 

The story of Jacob’s Ladder is in the book of Genesis chapter 28, verses 10-19.

The text for “This is the Day that God Has Made” is biblical with music by Leon C. Roberts.

“We are Climbing Jacob’s Ladder” is a traditional hymn.

“This Little Light of Mine” – text traditional, music by Penelope Gneisen

“Song of the Soul” is by Cris Williamson and was sung by her at MCC San Francisco on April 24, 2000. 

For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-10.

When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits.

This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org).

Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds.

The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco’s archive. It was performed by MCC-SF’s musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM.

Thanks to Dr. Judy Auerbach of the University of California at San Francisco. 

Thanks to Sue Fulton for permission to use “This Little Light of Mine.” 

Thanks to Cris Williamson for permission to use “Song of the Soul.” 

Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.  

Some links to good groups:

The Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco – the congregation’s current website. 

Metropolitan Community Churches – the denomination of which MCC San Francisco is a part. 

San Francisco AIDS Foundation – a place to seek information about HIV. 

POZ Magazine – a place to learn everything else about HIV (information included).

Save AIDS Research – their recent, epic 24 hours to Save Research conference with all the latest HIV research is available on YouTube through this site.   

LGBTQ Religious Archives Network – the place to get lost in LGBTQ+ religious history. 

Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>

We remember, along with the people of MCC San Francisco. Because AIDS still isn’t over.

In the final episode of When We All Get to Heaven, we catch up on what’s happened in the many years between the emergence of effective treatment for AIDS in the late ‘90s and the fall of 2025, when we recorded this episode. We linger on a moment back in June 1999, when Jim was still pastor and called on the church to remember that AIDS wasn’t over. Because—advances notwithstanding—it still isn’t over.   

For more on Gilbert Baker and the history of the rainbow flag see the  Gilbert Baker Foundation.

For more on Prep see San Francisco AIDS Foundation, What is PrEP? 

“The Path that Ends AIDS: 2023 UNAIDS Global Update” outlines a possible end to the AIDS epidemic. 

 

The story of Jacob’s Ladder is in the book of Genesis chapter 28, verses 10-19.

The text for “This is the Day that God Has Made” is biblical with music by Leon C. Roberts.

“We are Climbing Jacob’s Ladder” is a traditional hymn.

“This Little Light of Mine” – text traditional, music by Penelope Gneisen

“Song of the Soul” is by Cris Williamson and was sung by her at MCC San Francisco on April 24, 2000. 

For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-10.

When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits.

This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org).

Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds.

The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco’s archive. It was performed by MCC-SF’s musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM.

Thanks to Dr. Judy Auerbach of the University of California at San Francisco. 

Thanks to Sue Fulton for permission to use “This Little Light of Mine.” 

Thanks to Cris Williamson for permission to use “Song of the Soul.” 

Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.  

Some links to good groups:

The Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco – the congregation’s current website. 

Metropolitan Community Churches – the denomination of which MCC San Francisco is a part. 

San Francisco AIDS Foundation – a place to seek information about HIV. 

POZ Magazine – a place to learn everything else about HIV (information included).

Save AIDS Research – their recent, epic 24 hours to Save Research conference with all the latest HIV research is available on YouTube through this site.   

LGBTQ Religious Archives Network – the place to get lost in LGBTQ+ religious history. 

Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

10: AIDS Isn’t Over | When We All Get to Heaven

This week, Senate Democrats will hold a vote on extending expiring Affordable Care Act tax credits to try to prevent health insurance premiums from skyrocketing for millions of Americans. That vote is basically guaranteed to fail.
Where did these credits come from, and what’s likely to happen when they (almost) inevitably lapse?
Guest: <a href="https://x.com/jrovner?lang=en">Julie Rovner</a>, chief Washington correspondent for KFF Health News and host of the podcast “<a href="https://kffhealthnews.org/news/tag/what-the-health/">What the Health?</a>”
Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at<a href="http://slate.com/whatnextplus"> slate.com/whatnextplus</a> to get access wherever you listen.
Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a>

<description>This week, Senate Democrats will hold a vote on extending expiring Affordable Care Act tax credits to try to prevent health insurance premiums from skyrocketing for millions of Americans. That vote is basically guaranteed to fail.

Where did these credits come from, and what’s likely to happen when they (almost) inevitably lapse?

Guest: Julie Rovner, chief Washington correspondent for KFF Health News and host of the podcast “What the Health?”

Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.

Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>

This week, Senate Democrats will hold a vote on extending expiring Affordable Care Act tax credits to try to prevent health insurance premiums from skyrocketing for millions of Americans. That vote is basically guaranteed to fail.

Where did these credits come from, and what’s likely to happen when they (almost) inevitably lapse?

Guest: Julie Rovner, chief Washington correspondent for KFF Health News and host of the podcast “What the Health?”

Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.

Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What Next: Healthcare Is Expensive. It’s About To Get Worse.

Today, the CDC’s vaccine advisory committee will be meeting to vote on recommendations for childhood vaccinations. But under RFK Jr.’s leadership, this committee looks much different now than it did a year ago.How is the impact from the HHS secretary being seen across America today? 
Guest: <a href="https://x.com/DrPaulOffit">Dr. Paul Offit</a>,  Director of the Vaccine Education Center and professor of pediatrics in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia.
Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at<a href="http://slate.com/whatnextplus"> slate.com/whatnextplus</a> to get access wherever you listen.
Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a>

<description>Today, the CDC’s vaccine advisory committee will be meeting to vote on recommendations for childhood vaccinations. But under RFK Jr.’s leadership, this committee looks much different now than it did a year ago.How is the impact from the HHS secretary being seen across America today? 

Guest: Dr. Paul Offit,  Director of the Vaccine Education Center and professor of pediatrics in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia.

Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.

Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>

Where can the majority of parents—who believe in inoculation—find advice they can trust?

Today, the CDC’s vaccine advisory committee will be meeting to vote on recommendations for childhood vaccinations. But under RFK Jr.’s leadership, this committee looks much different now than it did a year ago.How is the impact from the HHS secretary being seen across America today? 

Guest: Dr. Paul Offit,  Director of the Vaccine Education Center and professor of pediatrics in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia.

Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.

Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What Next | The Year of Vaccine Backsliding

In 1996 everything changed. With the introduction of antiretroviral medications called the “AIDS cocktail,” people started getting better – some dramatically – and surviving AIDS became a real possibility. In the wake of these changes, MCC found itself taking stock of what they lost to AIDS and using what they learned to address larger social issues– from medical marijuana to homelessness. Sometimes these political stances felt heroic and a way to use that collective energy, and other times it made the church very unpopular with the changing Castro neighborhood.
  
<a href="https://hymnary.org/text/freedom_is_coming">“Freedom is Coming”</a>  is by Anders Nyberg. 
<a href="https://hymnary.org/text/earth_and_heaven_repeat_the_cry">“All Things New”</a> is by Rory Cooney.
<a href="https://hymnary.org/text/blessed_assurance_jesus_is_mine">“Blessed Assurance”</a> is by Franny Crosby.
<a href="https://hymnary.org/text/angels_we_have_heard_on_high">“Gloria (Angels We Have Heard on High” </a>is a traditional Christmas hymn. 
<a href="https://genius.com/Tramaine-hawkins-the-potters-house-lyrics">“The Potter’s House”</a> is by V. Michael McKay. 
For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-9.
Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/outward-slates-lgbtq-podcast/id1425950706">Apple Podcasts</a> or <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/72e0xzkDWilSlqBh95MwHV">Spotify</a>, or visit <a href="https://slate.com/podcast-plus?utm_medium=link&amp;utm_campaign=plus_pod&amp;utm_content=Outward&amp;utm_source=show_notes">slate.com/outwardplus</a> for access wherever you listen.
Production credits: 
When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit <a href="https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits">https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits</a>.
This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (<a href="http://www.hluce.org">www.hluce.org</a>), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (<a href="http://www.calhum.org">www.CalHum.org</a>).
Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor <a href="https://fjc.org/">FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds</a>.
The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco’s archive. It was performed by MCC-SF’s musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by <a href="https://domestic-bgm.org/barbara">Domestic BGM</a>.
Special thanks to Tom Ammiano, Tommi Avicolli-Mecca, Stuart Gaffney, John Lewis, Dr. Jen Reck, Matt Sharp, and Dana Van Gorder for their help with this episode. 
Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the <a href="https://mccsf.org/">Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco</a> who made this project possible.  
Some links to good groups
<a href="https://lyric.org/">Lyric Center for LGBTQQ+ Youth</a>
<a href="https://www.aliforneycenter.org/">The Ali Forney Center</a>
<a href="https://www.thetrevorproject.org/research-briefs/homelessness-and-housing-instability-among-lgbtq-youth-feb-2022/">The Trevor Project’s 2022 report on LGBTQ youth and homelessness</a> Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a>

<description>In 1996 everything changed. With the introduction of antiretroviral medications called the “AIDS cocktail,” people started getting better – some dramatically – and surviving AIDS became a real possibility. In the wake of these changes, MCC found itself taking stock of what they lost to AIDS and using what they learned to address larger social issues– from medical marijuana to homelessness. Sometimes these political stances felt heroic and a way to use that collective energy, and other times it made the church very unpopular with the changing Castro neighborhood.

  

“Freedom is Coming”  is by Anders Nyberg. 

“All Things New” is by Rory Cooney.

“Blessed Assurance” is by Franny Crosby.

“Gloria (Angels We Have Heard on High” is a traditional Christmas hymn. 

“The Potter’s House” is by V. Michael McKay. 

For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-9.

Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen.

Production credits: 

When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits.

This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org).

Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds.

The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco’s archive. It was performed by MCC-SF’s musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM.

Special thanks to Tom Ammiano, Tommi Avicolli-Mecca, Stuart Gaffney, John Lewis, Dr. Jen Reck, Matt Sharp, and Dana Van Gorder for their help with this episode. 

Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.  

Some links to good groups

Lyric Center for LGBTQQ+ Youth

The Ali Forney Center

The Trevor Project’s 2022 report on LGBTQ youth and homelessness
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>

Treatment Changes Everything. Church Included. 

In 1996 everything changed. With the introduction of antiretroviral medications called the “AIDS cocktail,” people started getting better – some dramatically – and surviving AIDS became a real possibility. In the wake of these changes, MCC found itself taking stock of what they lost to AIDS and using what they learned to address larger social issues– from medical marijuana to homelessness. Sometimes these political stances felt heroic and a way to use that collective energy, and other times it made the church very unpopular with the changing Castro neighborhood.

  

“Freedom is Coming”  is by Anders Nyberg. 

“All Things New” is by Rory Cooney.

“Blessed Assurance” is by Franny Crosby.

“Gloria (Angels We Have Heard on High” is a traditional Christmas hymn. 

“The Potter’s House” is by V. Michael McKay. 

For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-9.

Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen.

Production credits: 

When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits.

This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org).

Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds.

The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco’s archive. It was performed by MCC-SF’s musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM.

Special thanks to Tom Ammiano, Tommi Avicolli-Mecca, Stuart Gaffney, John Lewis, Dr. Jen Reck, Matt Sharp, and Dana Van Gorder for their help with this episode. 

Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.  

Some links to good groups

Lyric Center for LGBTQQ+ Youth

The Ali Forney Center

The Trevor Project’s 2022 report on LGBTQ youth and homelessness
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9: AIDS Energy | When We All Get to Heaven

A feed featuring episodes from across the Slate podcast network about health, wellness, and the science and business behind it all. You’ll see episodes from shows like What Next: TBD, The Waves, and How To!, containing coverage and conversations that go deeper than the headlines.

Slate Health

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