Profit matters, but it’s not the whole story. In this episode, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson talk about building a company around independence instead of endless growth. They reflect on finding the right size for a business, keeping costs low to preserve freedom, and choosing a long, sustainable run over chasing scale at any cost.Key Takeaways00:10 – Finding your “orbit” when you don’t need to keep pushing for more03:39 – Letting go of the idea that growth has to be endless09:05 – Choosing independence instead of outside pressure17:48 – Keeping costs low so you have room to try things your way19:57 – Why steady can beat getting biggerLinks and ResourcesFizzy is a modern spin on kanban. Try it for free at fizzy.doRecord a video question for the podcastSign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.comBooks by 37signalsHEY World | HEYThe REWORK podcastThe Rework Podcast on YouTubeThe 37signals Dev Blog37signals on YouTube@37signals on X