Most startups obsess over growth. Very few actually understand when scaling makes sense—and when it doesn’t.In this episode, John talks with Mark Roberge about the real science behind building and scaling a company. They unpack the myths around product-market fit, the ethical decision point every salesperson faces, and why revenue alone can be a dangerously misleading signal for founders.If you're building, selling, or leading a team, this conversation will challenge how you think about growth, customer value, and the future of sales in an AI-driven world.Ready to sharpen your sales skills and stay relevant in a rapidly changing market? Head over to www.jbarrows.com and keep learning how to Make It Happen.What You’ll LearnWhy revenue isn’t product-market fitThe ethical decision point in salesWhy retention beats new revenueThe role of a customer success matrixHow AI may reshape sales careersMark Roberge is the founding CRO of HubSpot, where he scaled revenue from zero to over $100M and helped take the company public. After leaving HubSpot, he joined the faculty at Harvard Business School and co-founded Stage 2 Capital, the first VC firm run and backed by go-to-market leaders. He’s also the author of The Science of Scaling, which introduces a data-driven framework to help founders decide when to scale, how fast to grow, and whether scaling makes sense at all.Connect with Mark Roberge:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markrobergeInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/roberge_markX: https://x.com/markrobergeMark's Bestselling Books Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B00NSKE4WYJohn Barrows is a sales trainer, speaker, and founder of JB Sales with over 25 years of experience in the industry. He has made hundreds of cold calls a week, led startups to acquisition, and trained high-performing teams at companies like Salesforce, LinkedIn, Amazon, and Okta. Through JB Sales, John focuses on practical sales execution—helping reps fill pipeline, close deals, and build trust with buyers in today’s AI-driven sales environment.Connect with John Barrows:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnbarrows/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/johnmbarrows/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@johnmbarrowsCheck out John's Membership: https://go.jbarrows.com/Join John's Newsletter: https://www.jbarrows.com/newsletter