Ratio Talks

<p>This week’s podcast is a little different. It is a live recording at Ratio’s home in Somerset House with Celestin Okoroji and Jolyon Miles-Wilson, founders of the research centre <a target="_blank" href="https://justknowledge.org.uk/">Just Knowledge</a>. Ratio has incubated Just Knowledge in its first year, although as I note in my introduction, with two Wellcome grants to their name I am beginning to feel as if they are incubating me. It is a good feeling!</p><p>Celestin and Jolyon are technically gifted, but their work is also fundamental to how we navigate the changing world of machines and data. Bottom line, Celestin and Jolyon are seeking to put data into the hands of people in the communities from which the data are drawn. They see people in datasets as the best people to interpret data, and advise on the policy implications. It is a radical position. And it is fundamental to the relationship between state, civil society and capital that has emerged as a dominant theme in Ratio’s work.</p><p>In the conversation Celestin and Jolyon refer to several studies and data sets. They include:</p><p>* their paper on<a target="_blank" href="https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s40163-025-00266-6"> Stop and Search</a> data</p><p>* the <a target="_blank" href="https://github.com/JustKnowledge-UK/policedatR">publicly accessible dataset</a> generated by their work</p><p>* a report on their ⁠work in <a target="_blank" href="https://www.placematters.org.uk/further-resources/understanding-poverty-in-place-summary-report/">Northumberland Park</a>, North London</p><p>* The residents of Northumberland Park made a submission to the planning process based on Just Knowledge’s work. There is a discussion in the podcast about this response of Haringey Council. You can find the councils response <a target="_blank" href="https://publicregister.haringey.gov.uk/pr/s/planning-application/a0iTu000001U5UjIAK/hgy20252829?tabset-3892f=3">here</a>. The DM Final Officer Report Document dated 12/12/2025 is the relevant document.</p><p>Celestin made an error attributing a report for Tottenham Hotspur to McKinsey when, in fact, it was prepared by EY. The report is available <a target="_blank" href="https://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/2023/december/club-releases-analysis-of-its-socio-economic-contribution-to-the-local-area/">here</a>.</p><p>Special thanks to Nik Paget-Tomlinson who recorded the event and engineered the podcast, and to our home at Somerset House for providing such a wonderful venue for the event.</p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://thisisratio.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">thisisratio.substack.com</a>

<p>This is the final episode in our series On Religion. The series was co-produced with Chine McDonald from Theos and Liz Slade from the Unitarians, and it is Chine and Liz who bring the series to a close.</p><p>In the episode we reference a lot of other writers in this space, as well as some art. They include:</p><p>Markus Bockmuehl who edited The Cambridge Companion to Jesus.</p><p>Gillian Rose author of Love’s Work published by Penguin in 1995.</p><p>Chine referred to this <a target="_blank" href="https://www.kcl.ac.uk/policy-institute/assets/lost-faith-the-uk%27s-changing-attitudes-to-religion.pdf">comprehensive survey</a> of religious and spiritual attitudes in the U.K.</p><p>You can listen to Andy Burnham’s Theos Annual Lecture for 2025 <a target="_blank" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzctXZ8aylI">here</a>.</p><p>This is Christ on the Cross by Francisco de Zurbarán, a source of meditation for me on regular visits to the Art Institute of Chicago in another life.</p><p>The series feels unfinished. Later in the year, I will see if the abundance of learning that came out of the conversations settles into some sort of pattern. If it does, I will try and get that pattern onto paper.</p><p>I am going to hand over Relational Social Policy substack to a series of pieces that bring together, in summary form, what I have learned in the last eight years about the power of relationships between people, and between peoples.</p><p>The regular conversations with people whose work informs a relational social policy will go out on the Ratio Substack. It will start with a couple of my colleagues, Celestin Okoroji and Jolyon Miles-Wilson who have established a new research centre, <a target="_blank" href="https://justknowledge.org.uk">Just Knowledge</a>, to democratise data.</p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://thisisratio.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">thisisratio.substack.com</a>

<p>Clare Farrell is my guest on the podcast this week, the penultimate episode in the series On Religion. Clare is co-founder of Extinction Rebellion, known as XR.</p><p>Non-violent resistance lies at the heart of XR, and Clare notes how those drawn to the movement, and especially those able to train on civil resistance are often explicitly religious or spiritual.</p><p>In the podcast Clare refers to the work of Catholic theologian Carmody Grey, and in particular this lecture <a target="_blank" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIEQeG3IRM4">What Do We Want To Sustain</a>? She has also drawn on the work of Buddhist psychologist John Vervaeke, and to this <a target="_blank" href="https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke/videos">series of conversations and lectures</a>. Both Clare and series collaborator Liz Slade are part of the <a target="_blank" href="https://hardart.metalabel.com/introducing-hard-art?variantId=1">Hard Art Collective </a> that has experimented with new ways of thinking about religion.</p><p>Clare’s latest work includes the <a target="_blank" href="https://www.humanityproject.uk/happening">Humanity Project</a>, a collaboration with Nick Gardham, and the Do-tank <a target="_blank" href="https://www.absurdintelligence.com/">Absurd Intelligence.</a></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://thisisratio.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">thisisratio.substack.com</a>

<p>Nick Spencer is the guest for this episode of Ratio Talks, part of the series On Religion. Nick is Senior Fellow at the think tank Theos and well known for his books on science and religion including The Landscapes of Science and Religion, Playing God, and Magisteria.</p><p>In the episode, we also refer to Richard Dawkins’ book The God Delusion.</p><p>The discussion includes a reference to the Scopes trial in Dayton, Tennessee on the teaching of evolution in schools. David Runciman’s podcast Past, Present, Future devotes an entire <a target="_blank" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eG3-hF4Yg8">episode</a> to the trial and is well worth a listen.</p><p>Liz Slade, co-creator of this series On Religion, gives her reflections on Nick’s work at the end, and refers to Unitarian Church member and the man who discovered oxygen <a target="_blank" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Priestley">Joseph Priestley</a>.</p><p>Nick’s next book Christianity and the Future of Welfare is due out with Cambridge University Press in 2026.</p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://thisisratio.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">thisisratio.substack.com</a>

<p>The podcast this week is in the safe hands of Chine McDonald from the think-tank Theos. Chine continues the series <em>On Religion</em> by bringing together her colleagues Jagbir Jhutti Johal, Joy Madeiros and Laura Marks to talk about the <a target="_blank" href="https://womensfaithforum.com/">Women’s Faith Forum</a>. Jagbir is Professor or Religion at the University of Birmingham. Joy is Founding Director of Oasis UK, a group of organisations delivering education, housing, health, anti human trafficking and a wide range of local community projects. Laura is a social activist, policy adviser, and writer.</p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://thisisratio.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">thisisratio.substack.com</a>