Co-op programs are trending these days, with many colleges looking to offer students on-the-job experiences while taking classes. Jeff and Michael talk with Robert McMahan, president of Kettering University, which has a long-running co-op program for all students. He argues that more colleges could incorporate and scale the approach. But there are obstacles, both cultural and logistical. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group.Chapters0:00 - Intro1:44 - An Unusual History of a Co-op Model3:28 - Kettering Presidents’ Path to University Leadership6:17 - Why Colleges Should Think of Employers as Their Customers11:23 - Why Colleges Can’t Learn Everything They Need On Campuses17:17 - How Kettering University’s Co-op Model Differs Than Others20:44 - Why Isn’t Kettering More Popular?24:44 - What Is Keeping More Universities From Doing Co-op Programs?29:30 - Sponsor Break31:05 - How More Colleges Can Move to a Co-op Model35:36 - Companies Don’t Have Enough Internships to Meet Demand39:08 - Could There Be ‘31 Flavors’ of Experiential Learning?41:50 - Will We See a Return of the Corporate University?45:52 - Lightning Round With Robert McMahanLinks“Colleges Teach Learning, but They’re Not Learning How to Survive,” by Robert McMahan in Fortune.“Former Governor Dishes on Connecting Work and College,” past Future U episode.Connect with Michael Horn:Sign Up for the The Future of Education NewsletterWebsiteLinkedInX (Twitter)Threads  Connect with Jeff Selingo:Dream School: Finding the College That's Right for YouSign Up for the Next NewsletterWebsiteX (Twitter)ThreadsLinkedInConnect with Future U:TwitterYouTubeThreadsInstagramFacebookLinkedIn  Submit a question and if we answer it on air we'll send you Future U. swag!Sign up for Future U. emails to get special updates and behind-the-scenes content.