The 2025 US Dietary Guidelines are out, and they’ve sparked debate across the nutrition world. In this episode, I sit down with Dr David Katz to examine where the new recommendations align with science and where they diverge from the Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee’s evidence review. We discuss the increased emphasis on meat and protein, contradictions around saturated fat and full-fat dairy, the controversy around seed oils, and what everyday people should actually focus on. What We Cover Why David believes science was subordinated to ideology The protein recommendation: do most Americans need more? Meat versus legumes for long-term health Saturated fat limits and whether the guidelines contradict themselves Full-fat dairy: beneficial, neutral, or harmful? Seed oils, essential fats, and common misconceptions The role of fibre and what gets displaced when protein increases The simple dietary pattern most associated with longevity Despite the noise, one principle remains consistent: eat real food, mostly plants, in balanced combinations. The fundamentals of good nutrition have not changed. You can connect with Dr David Katz on LinkedIn, Facebook, and X (Twitter). To learn more about his work, visit davidkatzmd.com, explore Diet ID, and discover the True Health Initiative. Intro (00:00) Initial Reactions to the New Dietary Guidelines (01:36) Political Influences on Dietary Guidelines (08:54) Specific Departures from Evidence-Based Recommendations (18:58) Historical Context and Modern Diet Quality (33:55) Protein Quality and Public Health (41:10) Regenerative Agriculture and Legumes (46:29) Understanding Fats in Our Diet (50:10) Contradictions in Dietary Guidelines (01:01:22) Dairy Consumption: Pros and Cons (01:10:20) Personalizing Your Diet for Optimal Health (01:19:25) This episode is brought to you by: 38TERA Consider 38TERA's DMN prebiotic supplement a daily multivitamin for your gut. Formulated by yours truly and gastroenterologist Dr Will Bulsiewicz. Use code THEPROOF for a discount at checkout. 38Tera ships to the United States, Australia, and New Zealand. ProLon Join my Guided Group Fasting Protocol starting March 9th using ProLon’s 5-Day Fasting Mimicking Diet, a science-backed program designed to support metabolic health while still allowing you to eat. Reserve your spot and claim 15% off at ProLonLife.com. ProLon ships within the United States. Mill Mill is an odourless, fully automated food recycler that turns kitchen scraps into clean, dry grounds overnight with no smells or mess. Get $75 off and try it risk-free for 90 days at mill.com/THEPROOF using code THEPROOF. Mill ships within the United States. Momentous My go-to supplement brand for protein and creatine is Momentous. Use code THEPROOF for up to 35% off your first order at http://livemomentous.com. Momentous ships to many countries worldwide depending on local import regulations. Eight Sleep Upgrade your sleep with the Pod 5 Ultra by Eight Sleep. Clinically validated to deliver up to 1 extra hour of quality sleep per night through temperature control and biometric tracking. Use code THEPROOF for $350 off at http://eightsleep.com/theproof. Try it risk-free for 30 days, with worldwide shipping. Eight Sleep ships to the U.S. (excluding Alaska, Hawaii, and territories), Canada, Mexico, most of the EU, the U.K., Australia, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Switzerland. Simon Hill, MSc, BSc (Hons) Creator of theproof.com Host of The Proof with Simon Hill Author of The Proof is in the Plants Subscribe & Connect: YouTube Apple Podcasts Spotify Instagram: @simonhill Twitter: @theproof Facebook: The Proof with Simon Hill