Tracking Wonder Podcast
Jeffrey Davis
Recent Episodes
We've spent this season on the podcast exploring the beauty of an excellent life. And our listener-heroes have some difficult questions about the process of daring to excel. You asked:
What role does FEAR play in advancing our best work?
Is the rise of entrepreneurship bringing with it a destructive rise of SELF-CENTEREDNESS?
How do you protect the INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY of your brand's frameworks?
Today, Jeffrey tackles the themes of fear, self-interest and intellectual property in the life of an entrepreneur. He explains how positive stressors can serve to deepen our insight and shares his process of inquiry when catastrophic thinking takes over. Jeffrey also reflects on the difference between self-interest and self-centeredness, discussing Adam Grant's research around balancing self- and other-interest to have the most significant impact. Finally, he offers several current examples of egregious self-interest AND robust other-interest, addressing what we can do as entrepreneurs to keep our egos in check. Listen in for insight around how Jeffrey protects his brand language and frameworks—and learn how to approach someone who seems to be appropriating your intellectual property.
Key Takeaways[0:10] The three listener questions we're exploring in this episode
- What is the role of fear in advancing our best work?
- Is the rise of entrepreneurship bringing a destructive rise in self-centeredness?
- How do you protect the intellectual property of your brand's frameworks?
[2:58] The role of fear in advancing our best work
- Can catalyze OR paralyze depending on situation
- Meaningful challenges necessary to excellent life
- Distress narrows attention, performance declines
- Positive emotions broaden input for insight
[11:20] Questions to consider when catastrophic thinking takes over
- What am I feeling?
- What am I afraid of?
- How real is that fear?
- What does this endeavor mean to me?
- How could this endeavor impact others?
[14:47] The potential correlation between entrepreneurship and self-interest
- Self-interest different from selfishness (not always bad)
- Every human motivated in part by own wellbeing
[18:25] Adam Grant's research around impact and self-interest
- People with little self-interest NOT as effective
- People with little other-interest NOT as effective
- Most impactful balance self- with other-interest
[20:03] Jeffrey's examples of egregious self-interest
- Uber's sexual harassment scandal + driver protests
- FYRE festival organizers defrauded investors $27M
- Rise of expectation for job to fulfill emotional needs
[26:08] Jeffrey's examples of robust other-interest
- Grunin Center for Law and Social Entrepreneurship
- Fast Company Impact Council
- David Byrne's Reasons to Be Cheerful
- John Mertz's Activate World Podcast
[28:36] What we can do as entrepreneurs to hold our egos in check
- Grow with integrity (mission matches policies, practices)
- Seek collaboration vs. cutthroat competition
- Cultivate healthy doses of WONDER
[30:26] How Jeffrey protects phrases like patch of the planet + brand artist
- Constant contact with IP lawyer, trademark many brand nuggets
- Team signs non-disclosure agreement and non-compete clauses
[35:58] How to protect our intellectual property as entrepreneurs
- Use repeatedly in public to establish legal grounding
- Include copyright notices on printed material
[38:12] What to consider before confronting someone for use of your IP
- Be sure language is truly distinct
- Asses how it's being used (e.g.: casual social post vs. monetized)
[40:18] How to approach someone who's appropriating your frameworks
- Contact by phone to clarity perception, discuss flow of influence
- Come prepared with solution and engage in open conversation
[43:22] Jeffrey's top takeaways from this season of Tracking Wonder
- Essential to keep getting better at craft and processes
- Keep learning to heed own voice of self-reliance
- Keep unlearning and practice art of not knowing
- Turn setbacks into opportunities for new life design
[43:58] The advantage of slowing down in a rapidly changing world
- Open up to new possibilities, pathways to life of mastery
- Interrupt with wonder and see again what is real + true
Jeffrey's Column at Psychology Today
Job Stressors & Innovation Study
Barbara Fredrickson's Research on Positive Emotions
Give and Take: Why Helping Others Drives Our Success by Adam Grant
CNBC Story on Uber Under Travis Kalanick
Business Insider Story on Uber Driver Protests
Fyre Festival Settlement Story
Derek Thompson's Workism Article in The Atlantic
Pew Research Center Teen Survey on Fulfilling Work
The Narcissism Epidemic: Living in the Age of Entitlement by Jean M. Twenge and W. Keith Campbell
Grunin Center for Law and Social Entrepreneurship
Reasons to Be Cheerful Magazine
What happens when the personal and professional life we have planned comes unraveled with a series of setbacks?
Is there a way to reframe the most stressful period of our lives as an opportunity?
Marc and Angel Chernoff contend that the way we spend our days is the way we spend our lives, and when they came up against back-to-back tragedy, the couple ruthlessly examined their everyday habits.
And one by one, they started to incorporate new daily rituals. Little things that got them closer to where they wanted to be. So, how can we work through our own tornado moments and use the experience to grow? How can we learn to excel—even as our world is falling apart?
Today, Jeffrey examines the art of life design with Marc and Angel, the creators of the Marc & Angel Hack Life Blog and bestselling authors of Getting Back to Happy and 1000+ Little Things Happy Successful People Do Differently. Marc and Angel share the series of personal tragedies that led to their work in the personal development space and the challenge they faced in shifting their own daily habits. The couple discusses what they had to unlearn to build a collective personal brand and speaks to their ability to translate complex theory into actionable insight. Listen in as Marc and Angel challenge us to ask what's worth suffering for and learn why rituals are essential in shaping our days along the journey to an excellent life.
Key Takeaways[0:02] How to turn tornado moments into opportunities
- Ruthlessly examine every part of daily habits
- Muster courage to shape life of excellence
[5:51] How Marc & Angel's young genius informs their current work
- Marc given freedom to explore spirituality at young age
- Angel always driven + competitive, desire to be #1
[10:22] What Marc & Angel's life was like before their tornado moment
- Pursuing careers in computer engineering + business
- Unrestricted, relatively carefree young adult life
[12:31] The series of tragedies that led Marc & Angel to personal development
- Mutual best friend passed away and Angel's brother committed suicide
- Angel lost job (primary source of income for couple)
- Turn to distraction to numb pain, avoid real conversation
[17:32] The challenge Marc & Angel faced in shifting their daily habits
- Difficult to acknowledge that daily habits not serving them
- Do one thing to break cycle (started with 45-minute walk)
- Add daily rituals like reading + blogging for accountability
[22:50] When Marc & Angel realized their blog could be a business
- Audience resonated with story, asked for one-on-one help
- Several articles went viral and fueled traffic to site
[27:14] What Marc & Angel had to unlearn to build a collective personal brand
- Define specific roles, afford each other autonomy and respect
- Embrace mantra 'this is not my job'
[31:48] How Marc & Angel developed the discipline to turn theory into actionable insights
- Identify principles to take us from where we are to where we want to be
- Make ideas simple to digest, help remind us of our better judgement
[35:56] The three critical actions Marc & Angel took to excel in the wake of upheaval
- Get outdoors every day
- Habitual, honest self-reflection
- Recognize business opportunity
[39:13] Why rituals are essential in shaping our days to help us be our best
- Daily practices help us reach goals, get us closer to/farther from target
- Changing one ritual slowly changes entire trajectory
[45:42] Marc & Angel's take on the adage to 'follow your passion'
- Start by asking what current job allows you to do
- Appreciating where we are puts us in position to make better decisions
[52:31] Marc & Angel's insight around what's worth suffering for
- Progress leads to happiness
- Not growing until hit discomfort zone, push self to achieve
[57:06] How to see the beauty in intense moments with other people
- Ask if person has ever walked same path
- Take deep breath and remember they have own pain
[1:04:32] The advice Marc & Angel have revised over time
- Used to be hyper-focused on being positive
- Shifted to relentless acceptance + presence
[1:11:48] The art of turning hardships into opportunities
- Use setback to take step back, decide what matters
- Pursue excellent life as expert of own experience with desire to serve
1000+ Little Things Happy Successful People Do Differently by Marc & Angel Chernoff
Think Better, Live Better Conference
ResourcesA Wondrous Mind on 1440 Multiversity
Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi
As humans, we yearn for artistic experiences that disrupt the day-to-day and wow us with a greater reality beyond our to-do list. That's what draws us to the wonder of film and literature and art exhibits.
In the absence of such experiences, we fall down the rabbit hole of digital distractions, scrolling Instagram for the unpredictability, the excitement of discovery we're not getting from our physical environment.
But what if we didn't have to go to a gallery or a theater to encounter these transformative moments? What if artful experiences were available in ordinary places? What if you yourself could design for disruption and delight on a small scale in your own business and brand?
Today, Jeffrey explores the impact of artful, transformative experiences with Vince Kadlubek, cofounder and executive advisor of Meow Wolf, an award-winning immersive arts production company out of Santa Fe, New Mexico. Vince explains how he went from struggling artist to head of a company valued at nine figures, describing how he thinks about the tension between art and commerce. He speaks to what he calls the crisis of imagination, discussing why people are hungry for imaginative analog experiences and what businesses can do artfully in response to the crisis. Listen in for insight into how the emerging experience economy is changing the way businesses engage with customers and learn the design parameters Vince uses to create the kind of reality-bending, transformational moments that make for an excellent life.
Key Takeaways[0:02] The human desire to be moved by artistic experiences
- Want to be surprised, disrupt day-to-day doldrums
- In lieu of such experiences we seek digital distraction
- Potential to design artful moments in business/brand
[5:17] How Vince's creative genius expressed itself early on
- Desire to serve + engage creatively (host sister's sleepovers)
- See world with critical eye, ironic commentary on capitalism
[8:34] What moved Vince to disrupt the mainstream Santa Fe art scene
- Disconnect between gallery owners and creative energy of city
- Experience at Warehouse 21 inspired to uplift true creative spirit
- Opportunity to save economy by appealing to Gen X tourist
[16:23] The early days of the Meow Wolf arts collective
- Dumpster dive for materials at Salvation Army and Goodwill
- Build large sculptures from trash out of necessity
[20:20] The turning point when Vince was arrested for shoplifting
- Doing media literacy art program in Santa Fe elementary schools
- Caught stealing video games at Walmart to fund project
- Arresting officer supported in court, got into 12-step program
[26:36] The mammouth growth of Meow Wolf in the last four years
- Took business course in creative startups, shift to for-profit
- Wrote business plan and pitched to George R. R. Martin
- Opened House of Eternal Return ($9M revenue first year)
- Currently expanding art attractions to other cities
[34:35] The opportunity around our shift to an experience economy
- Disrupt default drive for mere efficiency or profit
- Use creative spirit to design memorable events for customers
- Engage on physical, emotional, intellectual or spiritual level
[37:10] How Vince reconciles the tension between art and commerce
- Used to strive for predictability, efficiency in value exchange
- Addicted to unpredictability again with advent of internet
- Gives creativity opening (billions willing to pay for experience)
[43:04] Why people are hungry for memorable analog experiences
- Built reality needs art + imagination to compete with phones
- Creative economy will transform how we think about value
[46:44] Vince's description of the House of Eternal Return
- Through dark hallway to front yard of Victorian house at night
- Visitors have agency to go anywhere they want from there
- Access to portals to other worlds (e.g.: refrigerator = hallway)
[52:03] The design parameters for creating transformative experiences
- User must own experience
- Operate on gradient (blended vs. singular aesthetic)
- Create transformation with dimensionality, subspaces
- Get people out of comfort zone with movement
- Take from known to accessible unknown
[59:17] How Vince is contending with the art of saying NO
- Any idea = good idea in isolation
- Look at opportunities in context of defined framework
[1:03:00] The questions that arise out of today's conversation with Vince
- How are you assuming creative agency of your life/business?
- How does your brand foster creative agency in its customers?
- How could your brand help people stay open to uncertainty?
- How could your brand design transformational moments?
Meow Wolf Documentary Origin Story
ResourcesA Wondrous Mind on 1440 Multiversity
Center for Contemporary Arts Santa Fe
The Andy Warhol Foundation for the Visual Arts
'Welcome to the Experience Economy' in Harvard Business Review
Video of the House of Eternal Return
Chip Heath & Chris Fink on Tracking Wonder S2EP02
The Power of Moments: Why Certain Experiences Have an Extraordinary Impact by Chip and Dan Heath
Corporate culture perpetuates the idea that we need to fake it 'til we make it, pretending to have all the answers and projecting confidence in our abilities—whether we feel it or not.
But what if there are advantages to not knowing?
What if living rich, creative entrepreneurial lives requires that we let go of what we think we know, step into new territory and expand our mental map of the world?
Today, Jeffrey considers the benefit of naïveté in creativity and entrepreneurship with Sequoia Blodgett, former music video director and founder of Commas, a tech platform designed to help founders build sustainable businesses. Sequoia shares her journey from directing music videos to the tech world, explaining what she did to secure VC funding for her first company and how the failure of that venture led to the creation of Commas. She addresses the vast disparity of women of color in tech, discussing the unconscious bias prevalent on both sides of private equity and her mission to even the playing field for multicultural entrepreneurs. Listen in to understand how travel enhances creativity and learn how to navigate your own knowledge gaps in the pursuit of an excellent life.
Key Takeaways[0:02] How naïveté can work to our advantage
- 'Fake it 'til you make it' = destructive business advice
- Wide-eyed not-knowing benefits pursuit of creative life
- Let go of what think know as step into new territory
[4:44] How Sequoia's creative genius expressed itself early on
- Organize ideas + people in form of magazine, film
- Exposed to father's creative work at Pixar
- Studied TV, dance and film at Loyola University
[11:47] Sequoia's frustration with the business of making music videos
- Can't just create what you want (write hundreds of treatments)
- Must prove yourself over and over again
- Politics means work may never be released
[17:43] What inspired Sequoia to step into the tech world
- Learned about VC working at tech camp for girls
- Crowdfunding to attend Draper University
- Tim Draper invested in first tech company 7AM
[29:59] How the failure of 7AM informed the creation of Commas
- Didn't understand business, burned through capital
- Platform to help entrepreneurs build profitable business
[34:46] The navigation of knowledge gaps in pursuit of excellence
- Access to much info, yet rapid change renders us ignorant
- Learn to recover from failure savvier but not jaded
[39:10] Sequoia's mindset shift around what it means to fail
- Mentor explained that failure necessary for learning
- Freed from weight of having to be right
[40:04] The vast disparity of women of color in tech
- Issue on both sides (i.e.: unconscious bias, pattern matching)
- Mission to even playing field for multicultural founders
[46:01] Sequoia's insight around trying to do it all yourself
- Scale with systems when small, leverage automation
- Tech to build cashflow business and then hire team
[48:06] What Sequoia is doing to foster a strong inner life
- Hire coaches to make sure Commas is successful
- Support with business and self-development
[51:20] Sequoia's take on the necessity of wonder
- Travel to experience other perspectives
- Creativity improves when embrace other cultures
[57:27] What Sequoia is learning to say NO to
- Reject opportunities not necessary for growth
- Left Black Enterprise to say YES to other opportunities
[1:02:22] How to expand your mental map of the world
- Know what you don't know + create support pack
- Create nurture pack to foster inner awareness
- Learn from people your brand elevates
- Get outside yourself to shake up perspective
A Wondrous Mind on 1440 Multiversity
This Movie Changed Me: Black Panther
Columbia Study on Intercultural Relationships & Creativity
We are barraged by digital distractions to the point where it can warp our perspective.
It's profoundly challenging to hear ourselves think, let along carve out an identity of our own. So, how can we step out of this Matrix-like web of endless bombardment and live our own version of an excellent life?
How can we learn to listen to and rely upon our own point of view? What does that take? Are there skills of self-reliance we can practice?
Today, Jeffrey explores the art of mastering the entrepreneurial self with John Jantsch, the founder of Duct Tape Marketing and author of the forthcoming book, The Self-Reliant Entrepreneur: 366 Daily Meditations to Feed Your Soul and Grow Your Business. John explains how his curiosity informed his early days in business, discussing what living a life of excellence meant to him then and what it means now. He describes how the ideas of great mid-nineteenth century American thinkers like Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry David Thoreau and Margaret Fuller apply to contemporary entrepreneurs, challenging us to foster the self-trust necessary to uncover our personal passion and purpose. Listen in for John's insight around the characteristics of a self-reliant entrepreneur and learn to listen to your own authority, nurture a sense of empathy and openness to growth, and evolve to become even more of yourself.
Key Takeaways[0:02] Our addiction to information and digital distractions
- Challenge to hear self think, carve out own identity
- Learn to listen to + rely on distinct point of view
[5:35] The portrait of a young John
- 7 of 10 children, freedom of time spent in woods
- Characterized by curiosity (attention-getting device)
[8:57] How John's curiosity informed his early days in business
- Confident in staying one step ahead of client
- Served in emerging digital marketing space
[11:17] How John built and scaled his marketing firm
- Sell system to small businesses (traditional agency model)
- Back to working alone after 9/11, create online course
- Speaking, writing and building network of consultants
[15:45] What a life of excellence meant to John early on
- Help clients develop strategy first, then tactics
- Explore link between curiosity and creativity
[18:19] What inspired The Self-Reliant Entrepreneur
- Affection for mid-nineteenth century American thought
- Apply ideas to life of contemporary entrepreneur
- Need for self-trust and empathy to see connections
[28:49] How John's writing voice has evolved over time
- Write as member of audience (no first person)
- Hone art form of writing short passages
[36:08] The relationship between self-trust and purpose
- Stop letting others control, trying to control outcomes
- Self-trust necessary for purpose to find YOU
[38:19] The tension between the values and practice of self-reliance
- Technology + capitalism denies us pride of workmanship
- Disrupt digital matrix programming view of what's true
- Foster wonder and appreciation of beauty as antidote
[41:45] John's practices for listening to our own authority
- Quiet the noise and seek solitude
- Seek opportunities to experience new things
- Get outside in nature, foster spiritual connection
[45:36] How self-reliant entrepreneurs will change the world
- Goal to work much deeper on fewer things
- Nurture sense of empathy and openness to growth
- Give self break from judgement, need to compete
[55:00] The evolution of a self-reliant entrepreneur
- Shift focus from passion to success to impact
- Continue to embrace change and growth
- Prioritize mentorship, most important work
[1:03:14] The value of change by evolution vs. revolution
- Make profound change without crisis or drama
- Progression toward depth and richness
- Become more of self, able to engage and serve
- Slow down long enough to hear own voice
Email [email protected]
ResourcesA Wondrous Mind on 1440 Multiversity
Duct Tape Marketing: The World's Most Practical Small Business Marketing Guide by John Jantsch
"I Used to Be a Human Being" by Andrew Sullivan
Last Child in the Woods: Saving Our Children from Nature-Deficit Disorder by Richard Louv