<p>Dr Martin Lorenz (<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/drmartinlorenz/" target="_blank" rel="ugc noopener noreferrer">LI</a>) and Emily Harris (<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-harris-fca-3b381565/" target="_blank" rel="ugc noopener noreferrer">LI</a>) came by the podcast. We spoke about their project the <a href="https://anti-brief.org" target="_blank" rel="ugc noopener noreferrer">Anti-Brief</a> and their reimagining of the design profession: from a profession of knowing to one of discovery. Inviting learning and conversation to its very center. This is a conversation about deep codes, conversational design and an invitation towards a different posture. Martin and Emily are currently launching a new master with Elisava - that also shows up in the conversation. This is an introduction to a different way of thinking about transdisciplinarity beyond mere interdisciplinary. We also speak of the generative move between theory (the meta) and that materiality and much more related to the practice of systems change. <a href="https://led.darkmatterlabs.org/" target="_blank" rel="ugc noopener noreferrer">Life ennobling design</a>. Enjoy! </p>