In 1996 everything changed. With the introduction of antiretroviral medications called the “AIDS cocktail,” people started getting better – some dramatically – and surviving AIDS became a real possibility. In the wake of these changes, MCC found itself taking stock of what they lost to AIDS and using what they learned to address larger social issues– from medical marijuana to homelessness. Sometimes these political stances felt heroic and a way to use that collective energy, and other times it made the church very unpopular with the changing Castro neighborhood.
  
<a href="https://hymnary.org/text/freedom_is_coming">“Freedom is Coming”</a>  is by Anders Nyberg. 
<a href="https://hymnary.org/text/earth_and_heaven_repeat_the_cry">“All Things New”</a> is by Rory Cooney.
<a href="https://hymnary.org/text/blessed_assurance_jesus_is_mine">“Blessed Assurance”</a> is by Franny Crosby.
<a href="https://hymnary.org/text/angels_we_have_heard_on_high">“Gloria (Angels We Have Heard on High” </a>is a traditional Christmas hymn. 
<a href="https://genius.com/Tramaine-hawkins-the-potters-house-lyrics">“The Potter’s House”</a> is by V. Michael McKay. 
For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-9.
Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/outward-slates-lgbtq-podcast/id1425950706">Apple Podcasts</a> or <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/72e0xzkDWilSlqBh95MwHV">Spotify</a>, or visit <a href="https://slate.com/podcast-plus?utm_medium=link&amp;utm_campaign=plus_pod&amp;utm_content=Outward&amp;utm_source=show_notes">slate.com/outwardplus</a> for access wherever you listen.
Production credits: 
When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit <a href="https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits">https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits</a>.
This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (<a href="http://www.hluce.org">www.hluce.org</a>), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (<a href="http://www.calhum.org">www.CalHum.org</a>).
Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor <a href="https://fjc.org/">FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds</a>.
The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco’s archive. It was performed by MCC-SF’s musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by <a href="https://domestic-bgm.org/barbara">Domestic BGM</a>.
Special thanks to Tom Ammiano, Tommi Avicolli-Mecca, Stuart Gaffney, John Lewis, Dr. Jen Reck, Matt Sharp, and Dana Van Gorder for their help with this episode. 
Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the <a href="https://mccsf.org/">Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco</a> who made this project possible.  
Some links to good groups
<a href="https://lyric.org/">Lyric Center for LGBTQQ+ Youth</a>
<a href="https://www.aliforneycenter.org/">The Ali Forney Center</a>
<a href="https://www.thetrevorproject.org/research-briefs/homelessness-and-housing-instability-among-lgbtq-youth-feb-2022/">The Trevor Project’s 2022 report on LGBTQ youth and homelessness</a> Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a>

<description>In 1996 everything changed. With the introduction of antiretroviral medications called the “AIDS cocktail,” people started getting better – some dramatically – and surviving AIDS became a real possibility. In the wake of these changes, MCC found itself taking stock of what they lost to AIDS and using what they learned to address larger social issues– from medical marijuana to homelessness. Sometimes these political stances felt heroic and a way to use that collective energy, and other times it made the church very unpopular with the changing Castro neighborhood.

  

“Freedom is Coming”  is by Anders Nyberg. 

“All Things New” is by Rory Cooney.

“Blessed Assurance” is by Franny Crosby.

“Gloria (Angels We Have Heard on High” is a traditional Christmas hymn. 

“The Potter’s House” is by V. Michael McKay. 

For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-9.

Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen.

Production credits: 

When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits.

This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org).

Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds.

The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco’s archive. It was performed by MCC-SF’s musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM.

Special thanks to Tom Ammiano, Tommi Avicolli-Mecca, Stuart Gaffney, John Lewis, Dr. Jen Reck, Matt Sharp, and Dana Van Gorder for their help with this episode. 

Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.  

Some links to good groups

Lyric Center for LGBTQQ+ Youth

The Ali Forney Center

The Trevor Project’s 2022 report on LGBTQ youth and homelessness
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>

Treatment Changes Everything. Church Included. 

In 1996 everything changed. With the introduction of antiretroviral medications called the “AIDS cocktail,” people started getting better – some dramatically – and surviving AIDS became a real possibility. In the wake of these changes, MCC found itself taking stock of what they lost to AIDS and using what they learned to address larger social issues– from medical marijuana to homelessness. Sometimes these political stances felt heroic and a way to use that collective energy, and other times it made the church very unpopular with the changing Castro neighborhood.

  

“Freedom is Coming”  is by Anders Nyberg. 

“All Things New” is by Rory Cooney.

“Blessed Assurance” is by Franny Crosby.

“Gloria (Angels We Have Heard on High” is a traditional Christmas hymn. 

“The Potter’s House” is by V. Michael McKay. 

For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-9.

Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen.

Production credits: 

When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits.

This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org).

Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds.

The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco’s archive. It was performed by MCC-SF’s musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM.

Special thanks to Tom Ammiano, Tommi Avicolli-Mecca, Stuart Gaffney, John Lewis, Dr. Jen Reck, Matt Sharp, and Dana Van Gorder for their help with this episode. 

Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.  

Some links to good groups

Lyric Center for LGBTQQ+ Youth

The Ali Forney Center

The Trevor Project’s 2022 report on LGBTQ youth and homelessness
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

9: AIDS Energy | When We All Get to Heaven

On today’s episode host Kate Lindsay is joined by senior supervising producer Daisy Rosario to unpack the 25-part TikTok saga titled the “Danish Deception.” After a former Bachelor contestant came forward with a story about her scamming ex, TikTok turned on her instead. Why didn’t Onyeka get the Reesa Teesa treatment? And who is the real villain of this story?
This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a>

<description>On today’s episode host Kate Lindsay is joined by senior supervising producer Daisy Rosario to unpack the 25-part TikTok saga titled the “Danish Deception.” After a former Bachelor contestant came forward with a story about her scamming ex, TikTok turned on her instead. Why didn’t Onyeka get the Reesa Teesa treatment? And who is the real villain of this story?

This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, and Kate Lindsay.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>

A former Bachelor contestant came forward with a scammer story. TikTok turned on her instead.

On today’s episode host Kate Lindsay is joined by senior supervising producer Daisy Rosario to unpack the 25-part TikTok saga titled the “Danish Deception.” After a former Bachelor contestant came forward with a story about her scamming ex, TikTok turned on her instead. Why didn’t Onyeka get the Reesa Teesa treatment? And who is the real villain of this story?

This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, and Kate Lindsay.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

ICYMI | “Danish Deception” or Danish Delusion?

In 1995 Rev. Jim Mitulski became HIV positive -- what's known as seroconversion. It was 14 years into the epidemic and people knew what HIV/AIDS was, how you got it, and how you could prevent it. And when Jim got sick, he got very sick. What was it like to become ill so publicly? How would the church and the community respond? And what could Jim possibly preach about on his first Sunday back?
<a href="https://hymnary.org/text/my_soul_doth_magnify_the_lord_and_my_sp">“My Soul Doth Magnify”</a> is from Camille Saint-Saens’ Christmas Oratorio, Op. 12, 1858.
<a href="https://genius.com/Bobby-mcferrin-the-23rd-psalm-dedicated-to-my-mother-lyrics">“The 23rd Psalm (Dedicated to My Mother)”</a> is by Bobby McFerrin. 
The biblical story of the death of the prophet Elijah is in Second Kings, chapter 2. 
 
For images and links about this episode visit <a href="https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-8">https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-8</a>.
When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit <a href="https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits">https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits</a>.
This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (<a href="http://www.hluce.org">www.hluce.org</a>), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (<a href="http://www.calhum.org">www.CalHum.org</a>).
Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor <a href="https://fjc.org/">FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds</a>.
The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco’s archive. It was performed by MCC-SF’s musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by <a href="https://domestic-bgm.org/barbara">Domestic BGM</a>. 
Thanks to Ed Wolf and Frank DePelisi for talking us through the issues around HIV status and sero-sorting in the mid-1990s. 
And thanks to Bobby McFerrin and Linda Goldstein for use of “The 23rd Psalm (Dedicated to My Mother).” You can see McFerrin conducting his VOCAbuLarieS singers singing the piece <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn2zKKhhF3I">here</a>. 
Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the <a href="https://mccsf.org/">Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco</a> who made this project possible.  
Some links to good groups:
<a href="https://aginghiv.org/">National Resource Center on HIV and Aging</a> – resources for older adults living with HIV. 
<a href="https://www.aidsmemorial.org/surviving-voices">Surviving Voices</a> – an oral history documentary project on how different communities have experienced HIV and AIDS. The most recent focuses on lifelong and long-term HIV survivors. 
<a href="https://www.letskickass.org/">Let’s Kick Ass – AIDS Survivors Syndrome</a> – support for long-term HIV survivors. 
Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/outward-slates-lgbtq-podcast/id1425950706">Apple Podcasts</a> or <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/72e0xzkDWilSlqBh95MwHV">Spotify</a>, or visit <a href="https://slate.com/podcast-plus?utm_medium=link&amp;utm_campaign=plus_pod&amp;utm_content=Outward&amp;utm_source=show_notes">slate.com/outwardplus</a> for access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a>

<description>In 1995 Rev. Jim Mitulski became HIV positive -- what's known as seroconversion. It was 14 years into the epidemic and people knew what HIV/AIDS was, how you got it, and how you could prevent it. And when Jim got sick, he got very sick. What was it like to become ill so publicly? How would the church and the community respond? And what could Jim possibly preach about on his first Sunday back?

“My Soul Doth Magnify” is from Camille Saint-Saens’ Christmas Oratorio, Op. 12, 1858.

“The 23rd Psalm (Dedicated to My Mother)” is by Bobby McFerrin. 

The biblical story of the death of the prophet Elijah is in Second Kings, chapter 2. 

 

For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-8.

When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits.

This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org).

Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds.

The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco’s archive. It was performed by MCC-SF’s musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM. 

Thanks to Ed Wolf and Frank DePelisi for talking us through the issues around HIV status and sero-sorting in the mid-1990s. 

And thanks to Bobby McFerrin and Linda Goldstein for use of “The 23rd Psalm (Dedicated to My Mother).” You can see McFerrin conducting his VOCAbuLarieS singers singing the piece here. 

Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.  

Some links to good groups:

National Resource Center on HIV and Aging – resources for older adults living with HIV. 

Surviving Voices – an oral history documentary project on how different communities have experienced HIV and AIDS. The most recent focuses on lifelong and long-term HIV survivors. 

Let’s Kick Ass – AIDS Survivors Syndrome – support for long-term HIV survivors. 

Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>

“We just kept trying to find meaning, meaning, meaning.”

In 1995 Rev. Jim Mitulski became HIV positive -- what's known as seroconversion. It was 14 years into the epidemic and people knew what HIV/AIDS was, how you got it, and how you could prevent it. And when Jim got sick, he got very sick. What was it like to become ill so publicly? How would the church and the community respond? And what could Jim possibly preach about on his first Sunday back?

“My Soul Doth Magnify” is from Camille Saint-Saens’ Christmas Oratorio, Op. 12, 1858.

“The 23rd Psalm (Dedicated to My Mother)” is by Bobby McFerrin. 

The biblical story of the death of the prophet Elijah is in Second Kings, chapter 2. 

 

For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-8.

When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits.

This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org).

Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds.

The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco’s archive. It was performed by MCC-SF’s musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM. 

Thanks to Ed Wolf and Frank DePelisi for talking us through the issues around HIV status and sero-sorting in the mid-1990s. 

And thanks to Bobby McFerrin and Linda Goldstein for use of “The 23rd Psalm (Dedicated to My Mother).” You can see McFerrin conducting his VOCAbuLarieS singers singing the piece here. 

Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.  

Some links to good groups:

National Resource Center on HIV and Aging – resources for older adults living with HIV. 

Surviving Voices – an oral history documentary project on how different communities have experienced HIV and AIDS. The most recent focuses on lifelong and long-term HIV survivors. 

Let’s Kick Ass – AIDS Survivors Syndrome – support for long-term HIV survivors. 

Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

8: Conversion | When We All Get to Heaven

When the Metropolitan Community Church was founded in the late sixties, it was one of the first gay positive churches in America. When AIDS hit, it became a refuge for people who were sick and those who were mourning them. 
In this episode, Anna talks to researcher Lynne Gerber, about finding boxes of cassettes under the church floor in an MCC church in San Francisco, and how those recordings of sermons and songs became a podcast about finding community and comfort during a crisis. 
Lynne Gerber is the host of the 10-episode series <a href="https://slate.com/podcasts/when-we-all-get-to-heaven">When We All Get to Heaven</a>.
Death, Sex &amp; Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, <a href="http://slate.com/dsmplus">Slate Plus</a>! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at <a href="http://slate.com/dsmplus">slate.com/dsmplus</a>.
And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/deathsexmoney/?hl=en">Instagram</a> and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a>

<description>When the Metropolitan Community Church was founded in the late sixties, it was one of the first gay positive churches in America. When AIDS hit, it became a refuge for people who were sick and those who were mourning them. 

In this episode, Anna talks to researcher Lynne Gerber, about finding boxes of cassettes under the church floor in an MCC church in San Francisco, and how those recordings of sermons and songs became a podcast about finding community and comfort during a crisis. 

Lynne Gerber is the host of the 10-episode series When We All Get to Heaven.

Death, Sex &amp; Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus.

And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com. 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>

In the 1960s, the Metropolitan Community Church was one of the first gay-positive churches. When AIDS hit, it became a refuge.

When the Metropolitan Community Church was founded in the late sixties, it was one of the first gay positive churches in America. When AIDS hit, it became a refuge for people who were sick and those who were mourning them. 

In this episode, Anna talks to researcher Lynne Gerber, about finding boxes of cassettes under the church floor in an MCC church in San Francisco, and how those recordings of sermons and songs became a podcast about finding community and comfort during a crisis. 

Lynne Gerber is the host of the 10-episode series When We All Get to Heaven.

Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus.

And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com. 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Death, Sex & Money | “The Lord Is My Shepherd and He Knows I'm Gay”

Between the drastic budget cuts and provisions in the Big Beautiful Bill, the Trump administration has found a way to drain Planned Parenthood and other reproductive health centers and cut off access to abortion services—as well as any other health care those clinics provided. 
Guests:  <a href="https://bsky.app/profile/shefali.bsky.social">Shefali Luthra</a>, reproductive health reporter at The 19th, author of <a href="http://www.amazon.com/dp/0593685334/?tag=slatmaga-20">Undue Burden: Life and Death Decisions in Post-Roe America</a>.
<a href="https://mainefamilyplanning.org/about-us/leadership/">George Hill,</a> President and CEO of Maine Family Planning.
Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at<a href="http://slate.com/whatnextplus"> slate.com/whatnextplus</a> to get access wherever you listen.
Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. 
 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://megaphone.fm/adchoices">megaphone.fm/adchoices</a>

<description>Between the drastic budget cuts and provisions in the Big Beautiful Bill, the Trump administration has found a way to drain Planned Parenthood and other reproductive health centers and cut off access to abortion services—as well as any other health care those clinics provided. 

Guests:  Shefali Luthra, reproductive health reporter at The 19th, author of Undue Burden: Life and Death Decisions in Post-Roe America.

George Hill, President and CEO of Maine Family Planning.

Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.

Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. 


Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices</description>

Abortion bans may not be politically feasible—but cutting funding from the clinics gets you a lot of the way there.

Between the drastic budget cuts and provisions in the Big Beautiful Bill, the Trump administration has found a way to drain Planned Parenthood and other reproductive health centers and cut off access to abortion services—as well as any other health care those clinics provided. 

Guests:  Shefali Luthra, reproductive health reporter at The 19th, author of Undue Burden: Life and Death Decisions in Post-Roe America.

George Hill, President and CEO of Maine Family Planning.

Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.

Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. 


Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What Next | How Planned Parenthood Got Defunded

A feed drawing from Slate’s podcast network, including The Waves and Outward, featuring episodes that take a critical eye to the world around us, how we define ourselves, and how gender itself is defined.

Slate Gender and Society

Details

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