Mark Walker, CEO at Nue.io, helps companies design pricing models that align with how customers actually experience value—across usage, subscriptions, and hybrid approaches. In this episode, he joins Mark Stiving to unpack a growing tension: companies are pushing more flexible pricing models—but customers don't always want them. At the center is a simple question that changes everything: "How would you like to buy?" They explore why pricing isn't about finding one perfect model, but about giving customers the right options—while avoiding the complexity that slows decisions. If you're trying to evolve your pricing so customers can decide faster (without overwhelm), this is a conversation you'll want to hear. Why You Have to Check Out Today's Podcast: Understand why the future of pricing isn't choosing the "right" model—but giving customers the right options. See why customers don't want to decode your pricing—and how simplifying it builds trust faster. Learn how to experiment with pricing without breaking your business—or your customer relationships. "You need to introduce your customers to what you're going to be changing about your product set and ask them to tell you how they would relate that to value." — Mark Walker Topics Covered: 02:26 – What is a revenue architecture system? Why pricing, billing, and quoting can't live in silos anymore—and how unifying them enables pricing flexibility 05:11 – Aligning pricing models to customer value Why the same product needs different pricing models depending on how customers experience value 08:11 – What "hybrid pricing" really means Breaking down how companies combine subscription and usage to better reflect real-world value 19:29 – Why changing pricing is so hard The hidden risk: once a pricing model is live, you're locked into it longer than you think 21:39 – Optionality as a pricing strategy Why giving customers multiple ways to buy may outperform forcing a single pricing model 25:42 – Outcome-based pricing: what it actually means Why outcome-based pricing isn't new—and really comes down to who takes the risk 29:36 – Don't guess pricing—ask your customers Why involving customers early can prevent costly pricing mistakes 30:44 – How to talk to customers about pricing changes The role of communication in introducing new pricing without creating resistance Platforms & Pricing Model Examples: Amazon Web Services – Example of committed spend and consumption-based pricing at scale Snowflake – Known for credit-based pricing, highlighting the tradeoff between flexibility and pricing clarity DocuSign – Example of outcome-based pricing where customers pay per completed transaction ZoomInfo – Combines seat-based pricing with credits, illustrating hybrid pricing in practice Key Takeaways: "The more abstract you make the relationship between what the person is doing and what that costs, the harder it is to get the customer to budget for it." — Mark Walker "Outcome-based pricing is not a real thing. It is just a subset of usage-based pricing." — Mark Walker "You need to introduce your customers to what you're going to be changing… and ask them to tell you how they would relate that to value." — Mark Walker "Align your pricing to how your customer measures value." — Mark Walker People Mentioned: Steven Forth – Pricing thought leader referenced in discussions about credit-based pricing and abstraction Ray Tetlow – Mark Walker's mentor; known for simplifying business models and influencing his perspective on pricing structures Connect with Mark Walker: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markwalker/ Website: https://www.nue.io/ Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: [email protected]