Michael interviews Kevin Dau, pastor for discipleship and counseling at Hespeler Baptist Church in Cambridge, Ontario, and a practicum instructor for Heritage College and Seminary’s master’s level biblical counseling certificate. Dau contrasts professional counseling with pastoral counseling, where caring becomes more personal and multifaceted because counselees are also part of church life, increasing stress and highlighting human limits. Using Galatians 6:1–3, Exodus 18, and themes from Psalms, they discuss bearing one another’s burdens while watching for temptation, pride, and burnout, and the need for accountability, peer support, and sometimes personal counseling for counselors. They emphasize proactive self-care, ordinary means of grace, recognizing stress signals (affect and effectiveness), building a church culture of vulnerability, and regularly asking trusted observers what they see and acting on it.00:00 Podcast intro and guest00:59 Kevin ministry roles02:10 Training counselors at Heritage03:38 Pastoral burdens and stress07:24 Needing care and counseling12:00 Accountability for shepherds18:12 Asking for help early20:34 Stress and means of grace24:55 Galatians warnings and humility26:28 Practical steps and closing