What happens after you leave religion — but still feel a deep pull toward meaning, ritual, spirituality, or transcendence? In this conversation, Bill Reel and Britt Hartley sit down with religious ethicist and author Liz Bucar to explore what fills the vacuum when traditional faith falls away. From modern wellness culture and yoga to psychedelics, embodiment, and moral pressure, we ask hard questions about where people turn next — and whether those new spaces truly free us or quietly recreate the same dynamics we thought we escaped. Liz shares insights from her work and her book Beyond Wellness, examining how even “spiritual but not religious” communities can reproduce shame, hierarchy, and invisible expectations — often without realizing it. Together, we explore: Why wellness culture increasingly functions like religion How moral pressure sneaks into spiritual spaces What it means to “steal from religion” ethically Why humans still crave ritual and transcendence How authority, identity, and meaning-making persist after deconstruction What secular communities often miss emotionally How embodiment, yoga, and psychedelics can be approached with care rather than dogma This is an honest, thoughtful, and deeply human conversation for anyone navigating life after faith — especially those who are intellectually out but still feel emotionally or culturally tethered to their religious past. If you’ve ever wondered why leaving belief didn’t automatically bring peace… this episode helps explain why 00:02:41 – Who is Liz Bucar and how she became a religious ethicist00:04:13 – Why Liz wrote Beyond Wellness00:07:01 – What modern wellness culture gets wrong00:12:22 – When spirituality becomes moral pressure00:16:45 – Stealing from religion ethically00:22:38 – What secular people often miss after deconstruction00:30:14 – Yoga, embodiment, and deeper spiritual practice00:38:52 – Psychedelics, meaning-making, and ethical use00:49:41 – Authority, experience, and who gets to decide truth01:00:27 – Why humans still crave ritual and transcendence01:10:36 – Advice for those intellectually out but emotionally tethered01:17:39 – Reflections on Beyond Wellness and modern spirituality01:19:26 – Britt & Bill reflect on Liz’s insights