The Legendary Leaders Podcast

What if the very drive that takes you to the top of your career is quietly dismantling everything underneath it? In this raw, deeply human episode of Legendary Leaders, host Cathleen O'Sullivan is joined by Nick Jonsson — global keynote speaker, bestselling author, and the world's number one thought leader on executive loneliness. Swedish-born, educated in Australia, and based across Southeast Asia for over two decades, Nick has spent 22 years living and working at the intersection of high performance and hidden struggle. Nick opens with the story most leaders never tell: how a working-class upbringing wired him to equate worth with relentless grind, how loneliness crept in silently behind every promotion, and how alcohol became his coping mechanism — not occasionally, but systematically. He and Cathleen explore what addiction really looks like in high-performing people and why it's so easy to miss, how "smiling depression" masks crisis even from those closest to us, why surrender is the first and most essential step toward something solid, and what leaders can do right now to build safer spaces — for their teams and for themselves. This is a conversation that will stop you mid-scroll and ask you the question Cathleen poses at the very start: if you stripped away the job title, the calendar, the KPIs — who are you? And are you okay?​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​ Episode Timeline: 00:00:00 When Performance Meets Loneliness 00:05:54 Nick's Story: From Working-Class Roots to Rock Bottom 00:10:19 The Making of an Anxious Overachiever 00:14:14 Where Loneliness Really Lives 00:15:59 From Bad Habit to Addiction 00:28:07 Surrender as the First Step 00:31:03 Progress Over Perfection 00:34:59 The Relief Leaders Are Really Looking For 00:37:42 Psychological Safety — Theory vs. Reality 00:45:04 Signals Leaders Should Watch For 00:49:55 Depression, Hopelessness, and Smiling Through It 00:54:33 Seeing the Signs in Someone You Love 00:57:25 The Five Steps to Holistic Leadership 01:04:19 What We Can Do Every Day​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​ Key Takeaway: Loneliness at the Top Is Real — and Rarely Talked About: The higher you climb, the fewer safe spaces there are to admit struggle. Naming that is the first step toward changing it. Surrender Is Strength, Not Failure: Admitting something isn't working is not giving up — it's the starting point for everything that comes after. You cannot rebuild what you won't first put down. Progress Over Perfection in Recovery: Relapse doesn't mean starting over. What matters is honesty about what happened and what you'll do differently next time. Leaders Set the Culture by Going First: Psychological safety isn't a policy — it's a practice. When a leader owns their struggles openly, it gives everyone else permission to do the same. Build Your Safe Space Before You Need It: A coach, peer group, or trusted friend outside work isn't a luxury. It's what keeps pressure from becoming crisis.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​ About Nick Jonsson: Nick Jonsson is a global keynote speaker, supervised psychotherapist, certified executive coach, and #1 international bestselling author recognised as the world's leading thought leader on executive loneliness. Swedish-born and educated in Australia, he has spent over 22 years living and working across Southeast Asia — in Singapore, Indonesia, Vietnam, and Thailand. As co-founder and Managing Director of Executives' Global Network (EGN), he built Southeast Asia's largest confidential peer network for senior executives and business owners. His bestselling book, Executive Loneliness, draws on his own recovery from burnout, alcoholism, and depression to help leaders break free from isolation and lead with wellbeing and sustainable performance. A LinkedIn Top Voice and award-winning entrepreneur, Nick works with leaders around the world on psychological safety, holistic leadership, and genuine connection. Connect with Nick Jonsson: Website: https://www.nickjonsson.com/ LinkedIn: https://sg.linkedin.com/in/nick-jonsson Book: https://www.nickjonsson.com/executive-loneliness-book Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jonssonnick/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NickJonsson Podcast: https://www.nickjonsson.com/podcast Connect with Cathleen O'Sullivan: Business: https://cathleenosullivan.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cathleen-osullivan/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/legendary_leaders_cathleenos/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LegendaryLeaderswithCathleenOS FOLLOW LEGENDARY LEADERS ON APPLE, SPOTIFY OR WHEREVER YOU LISTEN TO YOUR PODCASTS.

What if the biggest barrier to high performance at work isn't talent, strategy, or even time — but the way your brain and energy actually function? In this grounded, practical episode of Legendary Leaders, host Cathleen O'Sullivan is joined by Alex Davids, director and founding partner of Next Evolution Performance — a global coaching business that helps leaders and teams achieve more while using less effort. With over 20 years of experience across the UK, US, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, Alex blends neuroscience and psychology to help people understand how their brain, behaviour, and energy systems really work. Alex opens with a concept that instantly resonates: continuous partial attention — the quiet, cumulative drain of open tabs, constant notifications, and always-on expectations that depletes the cognitive energy leaders need most. She and Cathleen explore why pushing harder is so often the worst strategy for better performance, how to identify your optimal focus period, what sustainable high performers do differently with their devices, and why busyness is frequently a cover for poor systems rather than genuine productivity. Alex also shares candidly the moment she had to admit she wasn't walking her own talk — and the small, deliberate habits she rebuilt around. This is a conversation that will slow you down in the best way — and leave you thinking differently about where your energy is going, and what becomes possible when you stop spending it on the wrong things. Episode Timeline: 00:00:00 When Performance Meets the Brain 00:04:24 The Hidden Cost of Continuous Partial Attention 00:06:06 Finding Your Optimal Focus Period 00:13:31 Why We're Competing With Our Own Technology 00:19:23 Energy Management Over Time Management 00:22:28 What Depleted Leadership Teams Look Like 00:26:57 Walking the Talk — Alex's Pivotal Moment 00:32:04 Boundaries, Guilt, and the Auto-Responder 00:37:22 What Sustainable High Performers Do Differently 00:41:18 The Experiment of Stillness 00:47:38 Life After Social Media 00:52:55 Dopamine and the Economy of Attention 00:59:55 Observing Your Own Mind 01:04:38 Useful Thoughts Over Positive Ones 01:09:15 Presence as the Ultimate Performance Tool Key Takeaway: Reduce Distraction Before Anything Else: Continuous partial attention is quietly draining your cognitive energy without you noticing. Before adding another productivity tool, try removing what's pulling your focus away. Less input is often the highest-leverage move. Match Your Hardest Work to Your Best Energy: Not all hours are equal. Identify when your energy peaks and protect that time for your heaviest thinking — doing it the other way around costs you far more than you realise. Busy and Productive Are Not the Same Thing: If overwhelm feels constant, it's a signal something in the system isn't working. Keep asking: is this actually the best use of our energy right now? Give Your Device a Job Description: Sustainable high performers have a defined relationship with their phone — not just a phone. Deciding what it's for, and what it isn't, is one of the simplest boundaries you can set for your focus and energy. Stillness Is a Performance Strategy: The brain needs space to think creatively, shift perspective, and connect ideas. Building small moments of stillness into your day isn't a luxury — it's how you stay capable of the thinking that actually matters.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​ About Alexandra Davids: Alexandra Davids is a high-performance coach and cognitive energy strategist who helps business leaders and teams optimize their mental performance and achieve peak productivity without the risk of burnout. As Co-founder of Next Evolution Performance, she specializes in translating neuroscience and behavioral psychology into practical workplace strategies that go beyond traditional time management to include cognitive energy and "effortless high performance." Alexandra was a founding partner of Inside80 and previously a coach within Shirlaws, and she brings over 20 years of experience across US local government and global corporate values development. Today, she works with senior CEOs and executives around the world to redefine workplace efficiency and bring sustainable high-performance narratives to life, drawing on decades of experience and a deep passion for human psychology. Connect with Alexandra Davids: Website: https://www.nextevolutionperformance.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/high-performance-coach-alexandra-davids-neperform 20/20 Webinar: https://nextevolutionperformance.com/events-20-20-clearer-views-on-the-neuroscience-of-high-performance/ Connect with Cathleen O'Sullivan: Business: https://cathleenosullivan.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cathleen-osullivan/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/legendary_leaders_cathleenos/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LegendaryLeaderswithCathleenOS FOLLOW LEGENDARY LEADERS ON APPLE, SPOTIFY OR WHEREVER YOU LISTEN TO YOUR PODCASTS.

What if the key to reinventing your career isn't a dramatic leap—but a quiet, stubborn plan built one small step at a time? In this warm, deeply honest episode of Legendary Leaders, host Cathleen O'Sullivan is joined by Lorraine Whale, qualified genealogist, house historian, and founder of Time Flies Ancestry—who spent over 25 years in HR and leadership roles before following a passion she'd been nurturing for decades. Their conversation spans career reinvention, the emotional cost of falling out of love with a profession, the underrated power of a good plan, and what it really means to lead yourself forward when nobody else is handing you a roadmap. Lorraine opens with something that will resonate with many—she doesn't see herself as a leader at all. But as the conversation unfolds, it becomes clear that her definition of leadership, building trust, giving others confidence, showing up with tenacity—is exactly what she has been doing all along, in boardrooms, in genealogy archives, and at home as a single mum raising a son she is quietly and fiercely proud of. She shares how she mapped her escape from HR with an Excel spreadsheet worthy of Andy Dufresne, why redundancy felt like liberation, and how a squiggly career can be the most intentional one of all. They also get into the human side of HR—why it too often becomes a ticketing system rather than a true business partner, what real people functions should look like, and the question that changed everything for Lorraine: Do you want to retire working in this? And for anyone wondering whether it's too late to start over, Lorraine's answer is simple: find the thing that lights you up, make a plan, and don't just do nothing. This is a conversation that will meet you with grace wherever you are in your career—and quietly nudge you to take that first step. Episode Timeline: 00:03:54 "I've never seen myself as a leader" 00:06:38 From admin to HR to genealogy — finding her place 00:16:39 Solitude, community, and the AGRA network 00:18:38 Falling out of love with a profession 00:21:19 What great HR actually looks like 00:29:02 The Andy Dufresne escape plan 00:34:02 Squiggly careers and waiting for what's next 00:40:13 The first small step 00:43:32 Loving the problem-solving of genealogy 00:49:43 The village it takes to raise a child 00:56:13 Self-care when there's no time for it 00:58:26 Find the thing that lights you up 00:59:13 How to find Lorraine and Time Flies Ancestry Key Takeaway: Reinvention Isn't a Leap — It's a Long Game: Changing direction doesn't mean scrapping everything overnight. Lorraine spent years qualifying, downsizing, and planning while still in her HR role. The most meaningful career shifts are built slowly, deliberately, and with a very clear goal in sight. Your Whole Career Is the Foundation, Not the Obstacle: A squiggly path isn't a weakness — it's a toolkit. Every function, every stakeholder, every challenge you've navigated gives you a perspective that a linear career never could. Don't discount it. Build on it. Ask Yourself the Uncomfortable Question: Lorraine's turning point came from one honest question — would I want to retire doing this? Sitting with that discomfort is where real clarity begins. If the answer is no, that's not a crisis. That's a starting point. If You Have a Goal, Make It Visible: Good intentions don't create change — a plan does. Whether it's an Excel spreadsheet, a timeline, or a milestone tracker, seeing your progress move is what keeps you going when the goal still feels far away. About Lorraine Whale: Lorraine Whale is a professional genealogist and family history researcher who helps people uncover their ancestral stories and preserve family and house histories. As Founder of Time Flies Ancestry, she specialises in detailed genealogical research that goes beyond online records to include archives, museums, and local history resources across southern England. Lorraine holds a Diploma in Genealogy and is a member of the Association of Genealogists & Researchers in Archives (AGRA) and the Register of Qualified Genealogists, and she also serves on the tutorial team of the Institute of Heraldic and Genealogical Studies. Today, she works with clients around the world to trace their roots and bring forgotten family narratives to life, drawing on decades of experience and a deep passion for the past. Connect with Lorraine Whale: Website: https://www.timefliesancestry.co.uk/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorraine-whale-75634a1b/ Association of Genealogists and Researchers in Archives (AGRA): https://www.agra.org.uk/ Connect with Cathleen O'Sullivan: Business: https://cathleenosullivan.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cathleen-osullivan/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/legendary_leaders_cathleenos/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LegendaryLeaderswithCathleenOS FOLLOW LEGENDARY LEADERS ON APPLE, SPOTIFY OR WHEREVER YOU LISTEN TO YOUR PODCASTS.

What if the biggest breakthrough in your leadership journey wasn't about having all the answers—but about showing up anyway, doubts and all? In this milestone solo episode, host Cathleen O'Sullivan celebrates 200 episodes by sharing the raw truth behind her podcasting journey—a masterclass in self-leadership, persistence, and knowing when to hold on versus when to let go. Cathleen opens up about crippling self-doubt, struggling with her accent, and balancing motherhood with building a business. Through it all, she discovered that impact doesn't need to be loud to be meaningful, and that starting small can lead to extraordinary ripples. This episode is your permission slip to take that brave step you've been holding back on. Episode Timeline: 01:01 A journey of ups, downs, and contemplating quitting 06:08 Battling the inner critic: "Who do you think you are?" 08:07 What does it really mean to lead well? 11:44 What felt tremendously hard: vulnerability and overthinking 15:51 The power of starting small 19:23 Freezing at the first recording: the fear of judgment 21:30 Small steps that helped pushing through 25:15 Key highlights from 200 episodes and extraordinary guests 27:47 What's next: more unpolished truth and deeper solo episodes Key Takeaway: The Power of Starting Small: You don't need perfection or a grand plan. Leadership begins with leading yourself out of fear and into your next step—one question, one voice, one brave move. Vulnerability Is Strength: The most powerful leaders often have the deepest doubts. Being visibly human—doubt and all—isn't a weakness; it's your greatest asset and what builds trust. One Person at a Time: Impact doesn't have to be loud to be meaningful. If one person feels less alone or more understood, it's worth it. Small, consistent changes create ripples. Alignment Over Approval: Real leadership is about energy, behavior, and intention—not status or perfection. Choose what truly matters over what looks impressive. Connect with Cathleen O'Sullivan: Business: https://cathleenosullivan.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cathleen-osullivan/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/legendary_leaders_cathleenos/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LegendaryLeaderswithCathleenOS FOLLOW LEGENDARY LEADERS ON APPLE, SPOTIFY OR WHEREVER YOU LISTEN TO YOUR PODCASTS

What if the culture your organisation is trying to build isn't hiding in a values poster or a strategy deck—but in the smallest things you do every single day? In this warm, deeply practical episode of Legendary Leaders, host Cathleen O'Sullivan is joined by Augusta Vivian, CEO of Higson, a people development consultancy helping senior teams lead through change, build inclusive workplaces, and embed culture that actually lasts. Their conversation spans parenting and leadership, kindness as a performance tool, the hard work of real inclusion, and why stubborn values might be the most underrated leadership quality of all. Augusta opens with something personal—how raising her 17-month-old daughter has sharpened her understanding of presence, trust, and the power of micro moments. From there, the conversation moves into the heart of her work: how the tiny, consistent behaviours we model become the architecture of how we treat each other at scale. She shares how Higson builds change-ready cultures, why clarity is an act of kindness, and how vulnerability from a leader doesn't weaken authority—it creates the conditions for real trust. They also tackle inclusion head-on—unpacking the critical difference between diversity and inclusion, the unconscious bias we all carry, and how even the language we use with toddlers is quietly shaping future leaders. And Augusta makes a compelling case that fun, charity, and giving back aren't soft add-ons—they're non-negotiables, built into processes and calendars precisely because life is busy and good intentions alone don't get it done. This is a conversation that will nudge you to look differently at how habits, tone, and attention shape the people around you—at home, in your community, and at work. Episode Timeline: 00:04:18 Parenting as a leadership practice 00:06:41 Why micro moments are the real culture builders 00:09:31 Building a change culture, not just surviving change 00:12:59 The importance of kindness and vulnerability 00:18:02 Financial transparency, strategy days 00:21:24 Culture add, not culture fit 00:23:56 Core values of of Higson 00:29:06 Making the values a non-negotiable 00:34:38 The people behind the passion and authenticity 00:36:35 Stubbornness as a values-led superpower 00:41:14 The impact of her Oxford days 00:43:10 Diversity vs inclusion – what leaders get wrong 00:52:26 Why culture change stalls at the poster 00:58:44 Intelligent failure and the Rose, Thorn, Bud tool 01:04:57 What a parenting book teaches us about leadership 01:08:16 Boundaries over balance Key Takeaway: Culture Lives in Behaviour, Not Slogans: Values on a wall mean nothing without the layer below them. Define what your values look like in practice, build them into how you hire, appraise and recognise people—then they become culture. Most organisations skip that step. Kindness is a Performance Tool, Not a Nice-to-Have: Honest communication, genuine recognition and psychological safety aren't soft—they're the foundation of high performance. Teams that trust their leader navigate change faster, stay longer and go further above and beyond. Diversity Gets People in the Room. Inclusion Keeps Them There: A diverse team without an inclusive culture doesn't outperform—it underperforms. Around 70% of how included someone feels comes directly from their leader. Check your language, challenge your biases, and make sure people feel heard—not just present. If It Matters, Build It In—Don't Just Intend It: Charity work, fun, wellbeing check-ins, strategy days—none of it happens on good intentions alone. If something is a value, make it a non-negotiable: schedule it, process it, protect it. Otherwise, busy wins. About Augusta Vivian: Augusta Vivian is a people development and organisational culture expert who works with leaders and teams to build inclusive, high-performing workplaces and lead through change. As Founder and CEO of the people consultancy Higson, she specialises in designing leadership frameworks, behavioural change programmes, and talent practices rooted in psychological insight that help organisations communicate better, innovate, and thrive. With a degree in Psychology from the University of Oxford, Augusta combines deep expertise in human behaviour with a mission to create positive social and environmental impact — including donating a significant portion of Higson's profits to charity and achieving B Corp certification. Today, she partners with professionals who want to transform culture, strengthen leadership, and drive lasting results in their organisations. Resources Mentioned: The Right Kind of Wrong: https://a.co/054z87s9 The Whole-Brain Child: https://drdansiegel.com/book/the-whole-brain-child/ Connect with Augusta Vivian: Website: https://consulthigson.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/augustavivian/ Connect with Cathleen O'Sullivan: Business: https://cathleenosullivan.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cathleen-osullivan/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/legendary_leaders_cathleenos/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LegendaryLeaderswithCathleenOS FOLLOW LEGENDARY LEADERS ON APPLE, SPOTIFY OR WHEREVER YOU LISTEN TO YOUR PODCASTS.