“A lot of people think that I was influenced to do conceptual art by looking at conceptual art, and that really wasn't the case. It was really a search for a certain sort of understanding of the self,” Charles Gaines says of his creative process. In this episode of Variations on a theme, host Dessane Lopez Cassell speaks to the pioneering visual artist about his radical approach to using systems and formulas as a critical language. We also learn how Gaines builds on Sol LeWitt’s foundations to tackle social constructs like racism and segregation.

For more information about Microsoft's In Culture podcast and to read the transcript, please visit: microsoft.com/inculture/podcast