We talk a lot about people-pleasing, perfectionism, overachieving, anxiety, and self-doubt. But what if those aren’t actually the root problem? What if they’re symptoms of something deeper, heavier, and far more hidden? In this episode, Nicole sits down with Dr. Zoe Shaw — licensed psychotherapist, relationship coach, speaker, podcast host, and author of Stronger in the Difficult Places — to unpack the uncomfortable but life-changing topic of complex shame. Not the fleeting embarrassment kind. The deep, identity-level shame that quietly shapes how we see ourselves, what we believe we deserve, and how small or safe we allow ourselves to play in life. Dr. Zoe shares her own deeply personal story and explains how shame develops, how it disguises itself as “normal” behavior, and why healing requires more than just positive affirmations and surface-level self-help. This conversation dives into trauma, self-worth, people-pleasing, boundaries, vulnerability, confirmation bias, and the stories we carry about ourselves — often without realizing it. In This Episode, We Explore: The difference between guilt, shame, and complex shame Why people-pleasing and perfectionism may actually be rooted in shame How shame shapes identity, relationships, and self-worth The hidden ways women learn to hide themselves Why overachieving can become a coping mechanism The “phantom critic” vs. the “courageous truth teller” Why healing starts with honesty, not toxic positivity Practical first steps for untangling deep shame patterns How vulnerability helps shame lose its power Thank you to our sponsors! Become a Fora Advisor today at Foratravel.com/WOMAN - and make sure to tell them we sent you! Elevate your summer wardrobe: Go to Quince.com/tiww for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns! Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free! Families are better when they’re working together… go to myskylight.com/WOMANSWORK for $30 off your Skylight Calendar. Start your risk-free Greenlight trial today at Greenlight.com/TIWW. Don't wait to teach your kids real-world money skills! Connect with Zoe: Book: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/740766/stronger-in-the-difficult-places-by-dr-zoe-shaw/  Website: https://drzoeshaw.com/  IG: https://www.instagram.com/drzoeshaw/ Related Podcast Episodes High-Functioning Codependency: When Being “The Strong One” Is Slowly Killing You with Terri Cole | 341 Normalize It: Breaking The Silence & Shame That Shape Women’s Lives with Dr. Jessica Zucker | 303 Like A Wave, We Break: How Falling Apart Builds Confidence with Jane Chen | 388 Share the Love: If you found this episode insightful, please share it with a friend, tag us on social media, and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform! 🔗 Subscribe & Review:Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music | YouTube Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices