Informatics in the Round

Well, here we are—the final episode of Informatics in the Round (we think!). After five incredible years, 38 episodes, and thousands of listeners, we’ve decided it’s time to wrap up this journey. But first, we’re taking a minute (or maybe two hours) to reflect on this wild ride—and we’ve brought some people you might recognize! In this episode, we pull some clips from the archive to help us look back at our best moments, favorite topics, and silliest slip-ups over the years. We take you through our “Top 5” topics that we loved to talk about the most: electronic health records, patient privacy, public health, health equity, and AI. We will also share some stories you didn’t hear (like that time we forgot to hit records—oops), how the pandemic reshaped our personal and professional lives, and the lessons that will stick with us. To lead us through our Top 5, we invited back some of our favorite guests to reflect and discuss the future of the field:  Dr. Yaa Kumah-Crystal, MD, MPH, MS, is an Associate Professor of Biomedical Informatics and Pediatric Endocrinology at Vanderbilt University Medical Center whose research focuses on documentation in healthcare communication. Dr. Ellen Wright Clayton, JD, MD, is a professor of Pediatrics, Law, and Health Policy at Vanderbilt University Law School and Vanderbilt University Medical Center. Her research focuses on the ethical, legal, and social implications of genomics research. Dr. Melissa McPheeters, PhD, MPH, is the Senior Director for Analytics at RTI International, as well as an esteemed epidemiologist and public health informatician. Her work focuses on building interdisciplinary teams to address complex problems across health, public health, and data modernization processes. Dr. Consuelo H. Wilkins, MD, is the Senior Vice President and Senior Associate Dean of Health Equity at Vanderbilt University Medical Center and the Associate Director of the Vanderbilt Institute for Clinical and Translational Research. Her work attempts to bring together community stakeholders and create collaboration initiatives to improve community health and biomedical research. Dr. Chris Callison-Burch, PhD, MS, is a Professor of Computer and Information Science at the University of Pennsylvania. His research focuses on natural language processing and generative AI. So, is this really goodbye? Maybe, maybe not. We can never sit still for long. But for now, let’s raise a glass, share a few laughs, and remember the good ol’ times! We can’t leave without saying thank you to all of you for being part of the ride, for listening to us on your jog or your commute, and for engaging critically with all we’ve had to say. It’s been an honor. Thank you to all the guests who have joined us throughout the last five years. Thank you for contributing your expertise, your lived experiences, and your unfiltered thoughts. Thank you to the musicians who bravely stepped into conversations about topics they knew little about and for offering up their questions. You ensured we spoke to everyone, and your music said the rest of what our words couldn’t convey. To all our guests, your generosity with your time and your knowledge is what made this podcast what it was. Our mission was always to make informatics intelligible so that you and all your friends and family can engage confidently with the topic. We hope you now have the language to feel empowered navigating this crazy, awesome, flawed, fascinating healthcare system.  For now, this is Kevin Johnson, Harris Bland, and Ellie Shuert signing off! Mentioned in the episode: -Hidden Brain podcast -Scott Scovill and Moo TV, plus his appearance on episode 4: “Automated Resilience: Biomedical Informatics as a Safety Net for Life” -Nancy Lorenzi in “Informatics and Anti-Black Racism: What We Need to Do” (Jun. 2020) -Trent Rosenbloom in “21st Century Cures: Curing our Anxiety or Causing It?” (May 2021) -Hey Epic! -Brad Malin in “Data Privacy: Possible, Impossible, or Somewh

What role can AI play in mental health care? Let’s talk about it! In this year's final episode of Informatics in the Round, we explore how AI can assist both patients seeking diagnoses and treatments for mental health disorders as well as therapists looking to improve their clinical practice. While AI offers exciting possibilities, we also address important concerns around data privacy, potential bias, and the need to maintain human connection in the therapeutic process. It was a fitting discussion to to wrap up our year of AI-themed episodes. For our expert consultant, we invited Dr. Torrey Creed, an Associate Professor of Psychiatry at the University of Pennsylvania’s Perelman School of Medicine and founder of the Penn Collaborative for CBT and Implementation Science. As an NIH-funded researcher, her work focuses on creating pragmatic and sustainable strategies to increase access to high-quality mental health care, especially in low-resourced communities. She also serves as the Senior Implementation Consultant for Lyssn.io, which leverages AI to help scale multiple aspects of clinical care. We also welcomed back one of our favorite musicians, Jane Bach, to bring her perspective! Jane is an award-winning songwriter who has written for some of the biggest names in music, including Reba McEntire, Tammy Wynette, Collin Raye, and JoDee Messine. She was also recently inducted into the New York State Country Songwriters Hall of Fame. We wanted to spend some time in this episode honoring our friend, Nolan Neal, who passed away in summer of 2022. Nolan was upfront about his struggles with mental health, and we want to dedicate this episode to him. Nolan, thank you for sharing your life with us through your music. We hope this episode can help serve others like you and make a contribution to providing better mental health care to all. Mentioned in the episode: -"Shadow of the Man I Used to Be" by Nolan Neal -Nolan Neal on America's Got Talent -"Already Gone" written by Jane Bach, performed by Natalia Malo Make sure to follow our Instagram, X, Bluesky, Threads, and TikTok accounts so you can stay up to date on all our new content. Thanks for listening! Instagram: @infointhernd X/Twitter: @infointhernd Bluesky: @infointhernd.bsky.social Threads: @infointhernd TikTok: @infointhernd Website: https://www.kevinbjohnsonmd.net/

Can AI do our jobs better than we can? Let’s test it! You might have noticed that this episode got off to a strange start… who were those people talking anyway? That, my friends, was Google NotebookLM’s best shot at recording this very podcast. In it, two AI-generated guests conduct an ironic “deep dive” into the topic we are discussing in this episode: whether AI will come to replace certain jobs and how it will change existing jobs in our healthcare system and beyond. For this episode, we had the pleasure of hosting Dr. Marylyn Ritchie, a Professor of Genetics and the Director of the Institute for Biomedical Informatics at the University of Pennsylvania Perelman School of Medicine. An expert in translational bioinformatics, her research focuses on using clinical data to discover the genetic architecture underlying common diseases like cancer and cardiovascular disease. In April, she was appointed Vice Dean of Artificial Intelligence and Computing where she works to develop and implement an AI strategy for the Penn Medicine health system. We also finally got a songwriter back on our guest panel. Collin Frisch is an indie-pop singer-songwriter who describes himself as “like Ed Sheeran, but less talented and better looking.” After graduating from the University of Pennsylvania in 2023, he took on the role of Creative Director at the Bridge Church near Trenton, New Jersey. We were so grateful that Collin could represent the right side of the brain in this conversation. Lastly, we welcomed our co-host Harris Bland back to the show! We turn a bit philosophical in this episode; while we discuss AI’s potential to rewire and create jobs, we also talk about the undiscovered fields of medicine where humans must still blaze the path forward. Inevitably, our conversation turned into a reflection about which characteristics AI can’t yet emulate, the very things that make us human and—for now—irreplaceable. Mentioned in the episode: -What eMERGE actually means:  -”Will A.I. Kill Meaningless Jobs?” by Emma Goldberg, New York Times, August 2024 -Waymo Stand-off video -”Swiss cheese model” coined by Dr. James Reason in “Human Error: Models and Management,” British Medical Journal, 2000. Songs mentioned in this episode: “Unwritten” by Natasha Bedingfield (2004) “She Bangs” by William Hung (2008) (originally performed by Ricky Martin) “Shake It Off” by Taylor Swift (2014) “Anti-Hero” by Taylor Swift (2022) “My Boy Only Breaks His Favorite Toys” by Taylor Swift (2024) “All Too Well (10 Minute Version) (Taylor’s Version) (From The Vault)” by Taylor Swift (2021) “Ruin Your Heart” by Collin Frisch (2021) Make sure to follow our Instagram, X, Threads, and TikTok accounts so you can stay up to date on all our new content. Also don't forget to follow us on X @kbjohnsonmd and @htbland21. Thanks for listening! Instagram: @infointhernd X/Twitter: @infointhernd Threads: @infointhernd TikTok: @infointhernd Website: https://www.kevinbjohnsonmd.net/

What exactly is a “learning health system”? In several of our episodes, you’ve heard us talk about how data collection has modernized through new technologies and enhanced approaches to clinical trials. But now that we have all that data, we need to transform it into clinical practice. Learning health systems are all about completing this virtuous cycle from scientific discovery to implementation, and yet, there are few that exist and work well. In this episode, you’ll hear us discuss (and perhaps debate) what a true learning health system looks like, as well as how informatics can help lead the charge. Up first on our panel of distinguished guests is Dr. Genevieve Melton-Meaux, a Professor of Surgery and Senior Associate Dean of Health Informatics and Data Science at the University of Minnesota. Among her many accolades, she is a Past President of the American College of Medical Informatics, current President of the American Medical Informatics Association, and Director for the Center of Learning Health System Sciences at Minnesota. Her research focuses on clinical natural language processing, surgical informatics, and optimizing AI best practices. We were also joined by Dr. Chuck Friedman, a Professor of Medical Education and Chair of the Department of Learning Health Sciences at the University of Michigan Medical School. He is also the editor-in-chief of the open-access journal Learning Health Systems. Drawing from his time at the Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology in the U.S. Department for Health and Human Services, he helped transform Michigan’s medical education department into one of the first in the nation to focus on learning health at all levels, including large-scale information infrastructure. Finally, we had Dr. Peter Embí, Professor and Chair of the Department of Biomedical Informatics and Senior Vice President for Research and Innovation at Vanderbilt University Medical Center. Prior, he served as President and CEO of the Regenstrief Institute, a not-for-profit health care research organization in Indianapolis, Indiana that seeks to develop, conduct, and disseminate scientific research across communities. A Past President of the American Medical Informatics Association, his research centers on data-driven learning health systems. We are also pleased to share an original learning health systems “anthem,” composed by Molly Sinderbrand, called “System Problems Need System Solutions.” In our jazzy rendition, it was performed by pianist Phil Barrison and our very own Kevin Johnson on vocals! We appreciate all their contributions and are excited to feature it at the end of this episode! Tackling a topic like this required top-notch guests, and they delivered! We hope you enjoy listening. Links mentioned in this episode: -Evaluation Methods in Biomedical and Health Informatics by Charles P. Friedman, Jeremy C. Wyatt, Joan S. Ash -“Where’s the Science in Medical Informatics?” by C.P. Friedman -Learn more about the Indiana Network for Patient Care  -Patti Brennan’s Presentation referred to as “Care Between the Care”: “High-Reliability, Person-Centered Health Care Systems: It Can’t Happen Without the National Library of Medicine,” presented at GoldLab Symposium 2018 -“Creating Local Learning Health Systems: Thinking Globally, Act Locally” by William E. Smoyer, Peter J. Embí, Susan Moffatt-Bruce  Make sure to follow our Instagram, Twitter, Threads, and TikTok accounts so you can stay up to date on all our new content. Also don't forget to follow us on Twitter @kbjohnsonmd. You can find us wherever you typically get your podcasts. Thanks for listening! Instagram: @infointhernd Twitter: @infointhernd  Threads: @infointhernd TikTok: @infointhernd Website: https://www.kevinbjohnsonmd.net/

Live from the studio, it's Informatics in the Round! Okay, we aren't technically live, but we are bringing you an extra special episode from the Penn Engineering Online studio! Since all our guests are from the University of Pennsylvania, we thought we would sit down in-person to enjoy this lively discussion. Today we are talking all about chatbots and the future of generative AI in medicine. We discuss topics such as what chatbots are, whether they present the markers of true artificial intelligence, what innovations we are looking forward to, and the benefits and barriers to integrating them into our healthcare settings.  First, we had Dr. Angela Bradbury, an Associate Professor of Medicine and a medical ethicist at the University of Pennsylvania. She is also founder of the Penn Telegenetics Program, a national program using telehealth and digital tools to increase access to genetic medicine. Her research program has been developing patient-centered digital tools, including chatbots, to address the use of genetics in medicine and a limited genetics workforce. As a medical ethicist, she is particularly interested in how we responsibly deploy digital tools and generative AI in medical practice to improve patient outcomes. We also had Lyle Ungar, a Professor of Computer and Information Science at Penn. He researches the psychological dimension of natural language processing and artificial intelligence. His research group of psychologists and computer scientists study what language reveals about physical and mental well-being. They are building culturally aware chatbots for mental health support and teaching "soft skills" to high school students. Finally, we had Chris Callison-Burch, a Professor of Computer and Information Science whose AI course at Penn has one of the highest enrollments at the university with about 750 students. His research focuses on applications of large language models to address long-standing challenges in artificial intelligence. He’s a leading expert on AI and has appeared in front of Congress as well as on many podcasts to discuss the future of generative AI and intellectual property. We are so grateful to have all these expert guests on this episode and in the room with us! Oh, and we had a guest star hosting this episode—Ellie Shuert, our production assistant, stepped out from behind the scenes. She is freshly graduated from the University of Pennsylvania with a degree in English and Linguistics. Her curiosity about AI and natural language processing gave our guests lots to think about, and it was so fun to let her direct an episode. Thank you so much to Penn Engineering Online for hosting us in your beautiful studio space! It was the perfect place to enjoy this conversation. If you are listening, we suggest maybe going over to our YouTube channel to watch us film in such a cool space! This is truly one of our favorite episodes of the year, and we are so excited to share it with you! Make sure to follow our Instagram, X, Threads, and TikTok accounts so you can stay up to date on all our new content. Also don't forget to follow us on Twitter @kbjohnsonmd. You can find us wherever you typically get your podcasts. Thanks for listening! Instagram: @infointhernd Twitter/X: @infointhernd Threads: @infointhernd TikTok: @infointhernd Website: https://www.kevinbjohnsonmd.net/