In this episode, Eric talks to Oliver about a major loophole in New Zealand's tax system that allows some companies to accumulate PAYE and GST debts, stop filing, and effectively walk away — contributing to almost $7 billion in unpaid corporate taxes. They discuss Oliver's new research note, "Responsibility before ruin: A pre-emptive fix for NZ's phoenix problem", which examines how Germany prevents such debts from building up through automatic insolvency triggers. Oliver explains how a New Zealand-adapted version — requiring directors to act within a set timeframe after missing tax payments — could stop phoenix behaviour and reduce the $700 million in corporate taxes written off each year. Read Oliver's research note here: https://www.nzinitiative.org.nz/responsibility-before-ruin-a-pre-emptive-fix-for-nzs-phoenix-problem/