Homeward Bound (including The Great Humbling)
Homeward Bound (including The Great Humbling)

Homeward Bound (including The Great Humbling)

Dougald Hine

Overview
Episodes

Details

How will they look in hindsight, these strange times we are living through? Is this a midlife crisis on humanity's road to the Star Trek future – or the point at which that story of the future unravelled and we came to see how much it had left out? What if our current crises are neither an obstacle to be overcome, nor the end of the world, but a necessary humbling? These are the kind of questions which we set out to explore in The Great Humbling. We hope you'll join us and let us know what you think. Ed Gillespie & Dougald Hine

www.homewardbound.org

Recent Episodes

"Burnout From Humans" with Vanessa Andreotti
MAR 14, 2025
"Burnout From Humans" with Vanessa Andreotti
<p>This episode is the podcast version of <a target="_blank" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a_9r6UPFkc">a live event a few weeks ago</a>, hosted by the Gesturing Towards Decolonial Futures collective, where I joined Vanessa Andreotti – who some of you will know as Vanessa Machado de Oliveira – to wonder about what she is up to with AI.</p><p>To say it came as a surprise when Vanessa mentioned that she had co-written a book with an AI bot called Aiden Cinnamon Tea… well, that would be an understatement. Here, she shares more about why GTDF has chosen to work with AI and we puzzle this through with the help of stories.</p><p>If you’re coming to this without any context, then I recommend checking out the first couple of items in the shownotes before heading further into the episode, which starts with me quoting Vanessa’s alter ego, Dorothy Ladybug Boss:</p><p><p>The first thing you need to know about this book … is that it asks you to suspend both belief and disbelief.</p></p><p>Shownotes</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://burnoutfromhumans.net/">The Burnout from Humans website</a> – read the book Vanessa wrote together with Aiden Cinnamon Tea and interact with Aiden for yourself.</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://dougald.substack.com/p/the-wild-chatbot">The Wild Chatbot</a> – read or listen to the essay in which I tell the story of how Burnout From Humans came about and my attempt to make sense of what Vanessa, Aiden and the GTDF collective are up to here.</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://decolonialfutures.net/landing-with-the-land-differently/">Landing with the Land Differently</a> – from the GTDF, an alternative to the familiar game of land acknowledgements.</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/675703/hospicing-modernity-by-vanessa-machado-de-oliveira/9781623176242/"><em>Hospicing Modernity: Facing Humanity’s Wrongs and the Implications for Social Activism</em></a> – Vanessa’s previous book.</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/783178/outgrowing-modernity-by-vanessa-machado-de-oliveira/"><em>Outgrowing Modernity: Navigating Complexity, Complicity & Collapse with Accountability & Compassion</em></a> – Vanessa’s forthcoming book, available for preorder now.</p><p>If you want to support my work, including the making of Homeward Bound and the Great Humbling, then consider becoming a paid subscriber to <a target="_blank" href="https://dougald.substack.com">Writing Home</a> – where you’ll also have access to <a target="_blank" href="https://dougald.substack.com/p/the-in-between-videos-2">the In-Between Videos</a> and live events like the one-off <a target="_blank" href="https://dougald.substack.com/p/buber-club-the-recording">book club on Martin Buber’s I and Thou</a> which we just ran.</p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://www.homewardbound.org?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">www.homewardbound.org</a>
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93 MIN
The Great Humbling S6E4: The Consolations of Folklore
DEC 16, 2024
The Great Humbling S6E4: The Consolations of Folklore
<p>As Ed says at the end of our final episode of 2024, “Have yourself a mythic little Christmas!” We close the year with a wandering conversation about folklore, myth, modernity as being “away with the fairies” and hopefully bringing back something of worth from the journey.</p><p>Show Notes</p><p>* Ed’s new book of poetry, <em>The Father’s Road</em>, is <a target="_blank" href="https://www.etsy.com/se-en/listing/1824061612/the-fathers-road-poetry-collection?click_key=2c0f79d25c43dd0a3ab63f8c19f8f8f84d5939d3%3A1824061612&#38;click_sum=9313c943&#38;ref=shop_home_active_1">available now through Etsy.</a></p><p>* Roger Deakin, <a target="_blank" href="https://www.google.se/books/edition/Wildwood/7V5AurYY_GIC?hl=en&#38;gbpv=0"><em>Wildwood: A Journey Through Trees</em></a>.</p><p>* Alan Garner’s <a target="_blank" href="https://harpercollins.co.uk/products/collected-folk-tales-alan-garner?variant=40157865214030"><em>Collected Folk Tales</em></a>.</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://substack.com/profile/36342309-martin-shaw">Martin Shaw</a>’s <a target="_blank" href="https://www.facebook.com/p/Westcountry-school-of-myth-and-story-100025890138105/">Westcountry School of Myth</a>.</p><p>* On three ways of handling the “spiritual gelignite” of myth – retelling, translation and reabsorption/transmutation – Alan Garner’s essay, <a target="_blank" href="https://www.academia.edu/68953570/Book_review_the_death_of_myth">‘The Death of Myth’</a>, originally published in the New Statesman, 1970.</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Owl_Service"><em>The Owl Service</em></a><em> – </em>Garner’s transmutation of the myth of Blodeuwedd.</p><p>* For more on the Winnebago Trickster Cycle, see Paul Radin’s <a target="_blank" href="https://yale.imodules.com/s/1667/images/gid6/editor_documents/yacol_fall_course_readings/flick_readings/radin__the_winnebago_trickster_cycle.pdf?sessionid=a641a3f1-47fd-41ec-8541-29035b1491d3&#38;cc=1"><em>The Trickster</em></a>.</p><p>* Three recent pieces from <a target="_blank" href="https://substack.com/profile/2285370-mary-harrington">Mary Harrington</a> – <a target="_blank" href="https://www.maryharrington.co.uk/p/woke-is-not-the-new-reformation">‘“Woke” Is Not The New Reformation’</a>, <a target="_blank" href="https://www.maryharrington.co.uk/p/scrolling-toward-the-divine">‘Scrolling Toward The Divine’</a>, <a target="_blank" href="https://www.maryharrington.co.uk/p/yes-the-woke-right-is-real">‘Yes, the “Woke Right” is real’</a>.</p><p>* The Levi-Strauss line about “science, which started out by separating itself from myth, will eventually encounter it once again” is discussed in Debi Danowski and Eduardo Viveiros de Castro’s <a target="_blank" href="https://www.wiley.com/en-ie/The+Ends+of+the+World-p-9781509503971"><em>The Ends of the World</em></a><em>.</em></p><p>* James Bridle, <a target="_blank" href="https://jamesbridle.com/books/new-dark-age"><em>New Dark Age</em></a><em>.</em></p><p>* We’ll talk about D.W. Pasulka’s <a target="_blank" href="https://global.oup.com/academic/product/american-cosmic-9780190692889"><em>American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology</em></a> later in the series, when Ed’s had the chance to read it.</p><p>* Wendell Berry, <a target="_blank" href="https://www.google.se/books/edition/The_Need_to_Be_Whole/YXjuzgEACAAJ?hl=en"><em>The Need to Be Whole</em></a>.</p><p>* Ernest J. Gaines, <a target="_blank" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Gathering_of_Old_Men"><em>A Gathering of Old Men</em></a>.</p><p>* Alan Dundes, <a target="_blank" href="https://iupress.org/9780253202406/interpreting-folklore/"><em>Interpreting Folklore</em></a>.</p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://www.homewardbound.org?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">www.homewardbound.org</a>
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64 MIN
Five Questions for a Time of Beginnings
DEC 12, 2024
Five Questions for a Time of Beginnings
<p>My guest in this episode is <a target="_blank" href="https://substack.com/profile/114894644-jay-cousins">Jay Cousins</a>, an inventor, recovering entrepreneur and carrier of questions, an old friend from my Sheffield days, who has been based for the past ten years or so in Dahab, Egypt. This conversation came about because Jay wrote to me with a set of thoughts that build on the unfinished list of “Four Tasks for a Time of Endings” from the closing pages of <a target="_blank" href="https://dougald.nu/at-work-in-the-ruins"><em>At Work in the Ruins</em></a>.</p><p>The original set of tasks goes like this:</p><p>* Salvage the good things we have a chance of taking with us.</p><p>* Mourn the good things we have to leave behind – and do this, not least, by telling their stories, because these stories may turn out to be seeds in futures we can’t imagine yet.</p><p>* Notice the things that were never as good as we told each other they were about the ways we’ve been living around here lately, and the chance we’re given to leave these behind.</p><p>* Look for the dropped threads from earlier in the story and the chance to weave these back in – the things that have been marked as old-fashioned, inefficient, obsolete, but that might turn out to make all the difference on the journey ahead.</p><p>In the course of this episode, Jay brings up five questions that follow on from these tasks:</p><p>* What should we seek to <em>use before we lose</em> it?</p><p>* What can we <em>produce</em> now, knowing what is coming?</p><p>* What can we <em>evolve</em> from things we’ll lose?</p><p>* What are the <em>seeds</em> of the things we mourn – and how do we harvest these?</p><p>* What do we need to <em>learn and teach</em> future generations?</p><p>You can listen to Jay’s regular mini-podcasts at <a target="_blank" href="https://open.substack.com/pub/circusofseeds">Make Kindness Easier!</a> The <a target="_blank" href="https://solarpunknow.world/en/pages/infinitystonepaper">Stone Paper</a> product is being developed by the folks at <a target="_blank" href="https://solarpunknow.world/en">Solar Punk Now</a>. He’s <a target="_blank" href="https://x.com/jaycousins">@jaycousins</a> on Twitter and here’s <a target="_blank" href="https://de.linkedin.com/in/jaycousins">his LinkedIn</a>.</p><p><strong>Show Notes</strong></p><p>* We mention Vanessa Machado de Oliveira’s <a target="_blank" href="https://decolonialfutures.net/hospicingmodernity/"><em>Hospicing Modernity</em></a> and how she couples the work of hospicing to the work of “assisting with the birth of new, as-yet-unknown, and potentially – but not necessarily – wiser”.</p><p>* Richard Smith’s <a target="_blank" href="https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/380/bmj.p342.full.pdf">review of </a><a target="_blank" href="https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/380/bmj.p342.full.pdf"><em>At Work in the Ruins</em></a> in the British Medical Journal applies the original “four tasks” to the fields of medicine and public health.</p><p>* Jay introduces the work of Dave Hakkens and <a target="_blank" href="https://www.onearmy.earth/">One Army</a> – and especially the <a target="_blank" href="https://www.preciousplastic.com/">Precious Plastic</a> project. </p><p>* Talking about what we should “use before we lose” takes me to a conversation with the Solarpunk theorist <a target="_blank" href="https://substack.com/profile/1316989-jay-springett">Jay Springett</a> where he suggested using today’s earth-moving machines to do landscaping for permaculture that will continue to be useful long after the fossil fuel era is over.</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/">Low-Tech Magazine</a>.</p><p>* Jay’s <a target="_blank" href="https://solarpunknow.world/en/pages/infinitystonepaper">Stone Paper</a>.</p><p>* Martín Prechtel, <a target="_blank" href="https://floweringmountain.com/product/the-unlikely-peace-at-cuchumaquic/"><em>The Unlikely Peace at Cuchamquic</em></a> on the centring of seeds within Mayan culture. </p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://decelerator.org.uk/">The Decelerator</a> supports civil society organisations to create good endings (discussed in <a target="_blank" href="https://www.homewardbound.org/p/the-great-humbling-s6e3-decelerate">the #DECELERATE episode</a> of The Great Humbling).</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="http://eotwgarden.org.uk/">End of the World Garden</a> in Cornwall, created by the artist Paul Chaney.</p><p>* I wrote about Cryptic Northern Refugia in <a target="_blank" href="https://dougald.nu/pockets-a-story-for-alan-garner/">this essay for Alan Garner</a>.</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://scribalstyles.net/">Thomas Keyes</a>’s recipe for October Black Isle Pheasant Stew appeared in <a target="_blank" href="https://dark-mountain.net/product/issue-2-pdf/"><em>Dark Mountain: Issue 2</em></a>.</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinisation#:~:text=Carcinisation%20(American%20English%3A%20carcinization),a%20crab%2Dlike%20body%20plan.">Carcinisation</a> is an example of convergent evolution, by which “crabs” evolve from different directions.</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://substack.com/profile/8270562-caroline-ross">Caroline Ross</a>’s <a target="_blank" href="https://substack.com/profile/147444752-found-and-ground">Found and Ground</a> as an example of recovering and relearning skills. (I spoke to Caroline in <a target="_blank" href="https://www.homewardbound.org/p/taking-beauty-seriously-with-caroline">Homeward Bound S1E1</a>.)</p><p>* Here’s <a target="_blank" href="https://jaycousins.wordpress.com/2014/04/28/orikaso/">an old post of Jay’s about his first company, Orikaso</a>, and the fold-flat dinnerware products he invented.</p><p>* Cory Doctorow’s concept of <a target="_blank" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification">“enshittification”</a>.</p><p>* Jay’s <a target="_blank" href="https://www.ted.com/talks/jay_cousins_the_future_of_economic_success_is_collaborative?subtitle=en">TEDx talk</a>, where he started sharing his thinking about biomemetic business models.</p><p>* J.K. Gibson-Graham, <a target="_blank" href="https://www.upress.umn.edu/9780816648054/the-end-of-capitalism-as-we-knew-it/"><em>The End of Capitalism (As We Knew It)</em></a>.</p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://www.homewardbound.org?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">www.homewardbound.org</a>
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79 MIN
The Great Humbling S6E3: #DECELERATE
NOV 19, 2024
The Great Humbling S6E3: #DECELERATE
<p>In this episode, we chew on a question that’s been on Dougald’s mind since a recent event in London, where Brian Eno wondered what is the difference between an analysis which says we cannot save or make sustainable the trajectories of industrial modernity and technological progress, and an accelerationist position which says we need to bring about collapse in order to release the possibilities to be found in the ruins? What would a “decelerationist” politics look like?</p><p>Shownotes</p><p>* Derek Gow, <a target="_blank" href="https://chelseagreen.co.uk/book/birds-beasts-and-bedlam-2/"><em>Birds, Beasts and Bedlam</em></a> </p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://substack.com/profile/63576381-andy-hamilton">Andy Hamilton</a>, <a target="_blank" href="https://scribepublications.co.uk/books-authors/books/new-wild-order-9781915590305"><em>New Wild Order</em></a> </p><p>* James Kaelan, <a target="_blank" href="https://www.jameskaelan.com/"><em>999 Years of Peace</em></a><em> </em>is “a luddite publication, not for sale”, but you could try sending <a target="_blank" href="https://cartoondistortion.com/About">Cartoon Distortion</a> a message on Instagram to find out more.</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://substack.com/profile/1970092-elizabeth-oldfield">Elizabeth Oldfield</a>, author of <a target="_blank" href="https://www.hachette.co.uk/titles/elizabeth-oldfield-2/fully-alive/9781399810760/"><em>Fully Alive</em></a><em> </em>was talking at <a target="_blank" href="https://www.kairos.london/">The Kairos Club, London</a> this week. Kairos currently has paperback copies of <em>At Work in the Ruins</em> on sale for £10 and some great events coming up with friends of this podcast:</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://www.kairos.london/event/strategic-adaptation-for-emergency-resilience-with-rupert-read/">Strategic Adaptation For Emergency Resilience (SAFER)</a> with Rupert Read, Tuesday 26 November</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://www.kairos.london/event/a-new-cosmology-with-ellie-robins/">A New Cosmology: Feeling Our Way into the Imaginal</a> with <a target="_blank" href="https://substack.com/profile/272006-ellie-robins">Ellie Robins</a>, Thursday 28 November</p><p>* Ece Temulkeran, <a target="_blank" href="https://ecetemelkuran.net/how-to-lose-a-country/"><em>How to Lose a Country: The 7 Steps from Democracy to Dictatorship</em></a></p><p>* Dougald quotes from <a target="_blank" href="https://substack.com/profile/101883076-r-g-miga">R. G. Miga</a>’s comment on <a target="_blank" href="https://www.homewardbound.org/p/the-great-humbling-s6e2-remember">our election day episode</a> </p><p>* Watching “accelerationism” move over the last decade and a bit:</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://criticallegalthinking.com/2013/05/14/accelerate-manifesto-for-an-accelerationist-politics/">#ACCELERATE MANIFESTO for an Accelerationist Politics</a> by Alex Williams & Nick Srnicek (2013)</p><p>* Paul Mason, <a target="_blank" href="https://www.paulmason.org/clear-bright-future-a-radical-defence-of-the-human-being/"><em>Clear Bright Future</em></a><em> </em>(2019)</p><p>* Aaron Bastani, <a target="_blank" href="https://www.versobooks.com/products/476-fully-automated-luxury-communism"><em>Fully Automated Luxury Communism</em></a><em> </em>(2019)</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Land">Nick Land</a> – “the Godfather of accelerationism”, from the Cybernetic Culture Research Unit (alongside Mark Fisher of <a target="_blank" href="https://files.libcom.org/files/Capitalist%20Realism_%20Is%20There%20No%20Alternat%20-%20Mark%20Fisher.pdf"><em>Capitalist Realism</em></a>) in the 1990s to Neo-reaction and <a target="_blank" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Enlightenment">the Dark Enlightenment</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/11/11/20882005/accelerationism-white-supremacy-christchurch">‘Accelerationism: the obscure idea inspiring white supremacist killers around the world’</a>, <em>Vox</em> magazine, 2019.</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://www.ionaconsultancy.com/">Iona Lawrence</a> & <a target="_blank" href="https://decelerator.org.uk/">The Decelerator</a> – “We support organisations and individuals to anticipate and design closures, mergers, CEO transitions, programming ends, and all sorts of endings as just part of the everyday life of organisations and inevitable cycles of change in civil society.”</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://decolonialfutures.net/hospicingmodernity/"><em>Hospicing Modernity</em></a>, Vanessa Machado de Oliveira (in case we haven’t mentioned it before!)</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="http://www.onlyplanet.co.uk/"><em>Only Planet</em></a> – Ed’s around-the-world slow travel book</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://substack.com/profile/114894644-jay-cousins">Jay Cousins</a> writes on Substack at <a target="_blank" href="https://open.substack.com/pub/circusofseeds">Make Kindness Easier!</a> and will feature on an upcoming episode of Homeward Bound</p><p>* Karl Polanyi, <a target="_blank" href="https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.46560/page/n53/mode/2up"><em>The Great Transformation</em></a> (1942), Ch.3, makes the argument for a historical example of “decelerationism”: </p><p>Why should the ultimate victory of a trend be taken as a proof of the ineffectiveness of the efforts to slow down its progress? And why should the purpose of these measures not be seen precisely in that which they achieved, i.e., in the slowing down of the rate of change? That which is ineffectual in stopping a line of development altogether is not, on that account, altogether ineffectual. The rate of change is often of no less importance than the direction of the change itself ; but while the latter frequently does not depend upon our volition, it is the rate at which we allow change to take place which well may depend upon us. […] England withstood without grave damage the calamity of the enclosures only because the Tudors and the early Stuarts used the power of the Crown to slow down the process of economic improvement until it became socially bearable — employing the power of the central government to relieve the victims of the transformation, and attempting to canalize the process of change so as to make its course less devastating.</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://substack.com/profile/66197103-andrew">Andrew</a> at <a target="_blank" href="https://open.substack.com/pub/bogdownandaster">Bog-down and Aster </a> quotes Gustav Landauer, as he reflects on the US election in <a target="_blank" href="https://bogdownandaster.substack.com/p/a-short-word-and-a-poem-for-my-daughter">A short word and a poem for my daughter at day’s end</a>:</p><p>The State is a condition, a certain relationship between human beings, a mode of behaviour; we destroy it by contracting other relationships, by behaving differently toward one another… We are the State and we shall continue to be the State until we have created the institutions that form a real community.</p><p>Thank you for listening, sharing and responding to these episodes.</p><p><p>Thanks for reading Homeward Bound! This post is public so feel free to share it.</p></p><p><p>Thanks for reading Homeward Bound! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.</p></p><p></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://www.homewardbound.org?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">www.homewardbound.org</a>
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55 MIN
"Maybe I'm NOT a Doomer?" with Isabelle Drury
NOV 15, 2024
"Maybe I'm NOT a Doomer?" with Isabelle Drury
<p>In this episode of Homeward Bound, I’m talking to <a target="_blank" href="https://substack.com/profile/100703636-isabelle-drury">Isabelle Drury</a>, author of the Substack <a target="_blank" href="https://open.substack.com/pub/isabelledrury">Finding Sanity</a>. </p><p>I wanted to talk to Isabelle because of a post she wrote back in July, describing a moment in her relationship, shaped by the way she had been dwelling on thoughts of climate catastrophe and societal collapse:</p><p>I was discussing with my partner what our plans were for the next few years of our lives. What I imagine are the usual conversations one has when your future still seems wide open: ‘<em>Shall we have a baby?! Shall we move abroad?! Shall we buy a van?!’</em> Yet every answer felt wrong, because my future didn’t feel wide open. My future felt very small, and like there was only one possibility: the aforementioned end of the world.</p><p>The thing is, as I heard the words come out of my mouth garbled by tears, I realise I don’t actually believe this. Deep down, I don’t actually believe we are totally, irrevocably, and unequivocally fucked.</p><p>I’ve known Isabelle for a couple of years, she’s been part of the conversations that Anna and I host at <a target="_blank" href="https://aschoolcalledhome.org">a school called HOME</a>, and one of the themes that’s been coming up for me lately in that work is the difference in what it asks of us when we show up to the trouble the world is in, depending on the season of life we’re in.</p><p>I want to lean into this further and record some more conversations with folks of different generations who are wrestling with the questions I wrote about in <em>At Work in the Ruins</em>, asking how we show up for each other across the generational differences that Isabelle and I talk about in this episode.</p><p>I hope you enjoy our conversation – and do check out Isabelle’s Substack.</p><p></p><p><p>Thanks for reading Homeward Bound! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support our work.</p></p><p><p>Thanks for reading Homeward Bound! This post is public so feel free to share it.</p></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://www.homewardbound.org?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">www.homewardbound.org</a>
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48 MIN