Dwarkesh Podcast
Dwarkesh Podcast

Dwarkesh Podcast

Dwarkesh Patel

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Episodes

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Deeply researched interviews

www.dwarkesh.com

Recent Episodes

Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research
NOV 25, 2025
Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research
<p>Ilya & I discuss SSI’s strategy, the problems with pre-training, how to improve the generalization of AI models, and how to ensure AGI goes well.</p><p>Watch on <a target="_blank" href="https://youtu.be/aR20FWCCjAs">YouTube</a>; read the <a target="_blank" href="https://www.dwarkesh.com/p/ilya-sutskever-2">transcript</a>.</p><p>Sponsors</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://gemini.google">Gemini 3</a> is the first model I’ve used that can find connections I haven’t anticipated. I recently wrote a blog post on RL’s information efficiency, and Gemini 3 helped me think it all through. It also generated the relevant charts and ran toy ML experiments for me with zero bugs. Try Gemini 3 today at <a target="_blank" href="https://gemini.google">gemini.google</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://labelbox.com/dwarkesh">Labelbox</a> helped me create a tool to transcribe our episodes! I’ve struggled with transcription in the past because I don’t just want verbatim transcripts, I want transcripts reworded to read like essays. Labelbox helped me generate the <em>exact</em> data I needed for this. If you want to learn how Labelbox can help you (or if you want to try out the transcriber tool yourself), go to <a target="_blank" href="https://labelbox.com/dwarkesh">labelbox.com/dwarkesh</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://sardine.ai/dwarkesh">Sardine</a> is an AI risk management platform that brings together thousands of device, behavior, and identity signals to help you assess a user’s risk of fraud & abuse. Sardine also offers a suite of agents to automate investigations so that as fraudsters use AI to scale their attacks, you can use AI to scale your defenses. Learn more at <a target="_blank" href="https://sardine.ai/dwarkesh">sardine.ai/dwarkesh</a></p><p>To sponsor a future episode, visit <a target="_blank" href="https://www.dwarkesh.com/advertise">dwarkesh.com/advertise</a>.</p><p>Timestamps</p><p>(00:00:00) – Explaining model jaggedness</p><p>(00:09:39) - Emotions and value functions</p><p>(00:18:49) – What are we scaling?</p><p>(00:25:13) – Why humans generalize better than models</p><p>(00:35:45) – SSI’s plan to straight-shot superintelligence</p><p>(00:46:47) – SSI’s model will learn from deployment</p><p>(00:55:07) – How to think about powerful AGIs</p><p>(01:18:13) – “We are squarely an age of research company”</p><p>(01:20:23) – Self-play and multi-agent</p><p>(01:32:42) – Research taste</p> <br/><br/>Get full access to Dwarkesh Podcast at <a href="https://www.dwarkesh.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_4">www.dwarkesh.com/subscribe</a>
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96 MIN
Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI
NOV 12, 2025
Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI
<p>As part of this interview, Satya Nadella gave Dylan Patel (founder of <a target="_blank" href="https://semianalysis.com/">SemiAnalysis</a>) and me an exclusive first-look at their brand-new Fairwater 2 datacenter.</p><p>Microsoft is building multiple Fairwaters, each of which has hundreds of thousands of GB200s & GB300s. Between all these interconnected buildings, they’ll have over 2 GW of total capacity. Just to give a frame of reference, even a single one of these Fairwater buildings is more powerful than any other AI datacenter that currently exists.</p><p>Satya then answered a bunch of questions about how Microsoft is preparing for AGI across all layers of the stack.</p><p>Watch on <a target="_blank" href="https://youtu.be/8-boBsWcr5A">YouTube</a>; read the <a target="_blank" href="https://www.dwarkesh.com/p/satya-nadella-2">transcript</a>.</p><p>Sponsors</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://labelbox.com/dwarkesh">Labelbox</a> produces high-quality data at massive scale, powering any capability you want your model to have. Whether you’re building a voice agent, a coding assistant, or a robotics model, Labelbox gets you the exact data you need, fast. Reach out at <a target="_blank" href="https://labelbox.com/dwarkesh">labelbox.com/dwarkesh</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://coderabbit.ai/">CodeRabbit</a> automatically reviews and summarizes PRs so you can understand changes and catch bugs in half the time. This is helpful whether you’re coding solo, collaborating with agents, or leading a full team. To learn how CodeRabbit integrates directly into your workflow, go to <a target="_blank" href="https://coderabbit.ai/">coderabbit.ai</a></p><p>To sponsor a future episode, visit <a target="_blank" href="https://www.dwarkesh.com/advertise">dwarkesh.com/advertise</a>.</p><p>Timestamps</p><p>(00:00:00) - Fairwater 2</p><p>(00:03:20) - Business models for AGI</p><p>(00:12:48) - Copilot</p><p>(00:20:02) - Whose margins will expand most?</p><p>(00:36:17) - MAI</p><p>(00:47:47) - The hyperscale business</p><p>(01:02:44) - In-house chip & OpenAI partnership</p><p>(01:09:35) - The CAPEX explosion</p><p>(01:15:07) - Will the world trust US companies to lead AI?</p> <br/><br/>Get full access to Dwarkesh Podcast at <a href="https://www.dwarkesh.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_4">www.dwarkesh.com/subscribe</a>
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87 MIN
Sarah Paine – How Russia sabotaged China's rise
OCT 31, 2025
Sarah Paine – How Russia sabotaged China's rise
<p>In this lecture, military historian Sarah Paine explains how Russia—and specifically Stalin—completely derailed China’s rise, slowing them down for over a century.</p><p>This lecture was particularly interesting to me because, in my opinion, the Chinese Civil War is 1 of the top 3 most important events of the 20th century. And to understand why it transpired as it did, you need to understand Stalin’s role in the whole thing.</p><p>Watch on <a target="_blank" href="https://youtu.be/RH_ycZYH8-s">YouTube</a>; read the <a target="_blank" href="https://www.dwarkesh.com/p/sarah-paine-russo-chinese">transcript</a>.</p><p><strong>Sponsors</strong></p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://mercury.com">Mercury</a> helps you run your business better. It’s the banking platform we use for the podcast — we love that we can see our cash balance, AR, and AP all in one place. Join us (and over 200,000 other entrepreneurs) at <a target="_blank" href="https://mercury.com">mercury.com</a></p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://labelbox.com/dwarkesh">Labelbox</a> scrutinizes public benchmarks at the single data-row level to probe what’s really being evaluated. Using this knowledge, they can generate custom training data for hill climbing existing benchmarks, or design new benchmarks from scratch. Learn more at <a target="_blank" href="https://mercury.com">labelbox.com/dwarkesh</a></p><p>To sponsor a future episode, visit <a target="_blank" href="https://www.dwarkesh.com/advertise">dwarkesh.com/advertise</a>.</p><p><strong>Timestamps</strong></p><p>(00:00:00) – How Russia took advantage of China’s weakness</p><p>(00:22:58) – After Stalin, China’s rise</p><p>(00:33:52) – Russian imperialism</p><p>(00:45:23) – China’s and Russia’s existential problems</p><p>(01:04:55) – Q&A: Sino-Soviet Split</p><p>(01:22:44) – Stalin’s lessons from WW2</p> <br/><br/>Get full access to Dwarkesh Podcast at <a href="https://www.dwarkesh.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_4">www.dwarkesh.com/subscribe</a>
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90 MIN
Andrej Karpathy — AGI is still a decade away
OCT 17, 2025
Andrej Karpathy — AGI is still a decade away
<p>The <a target="_blank" href="https://x.com/karpathy">Andrej Karpathy</a> episode.</p><p>During this interview, Andrej explains why reinforcement learning is terrible (but everything else is much worse), why AGI will just blend into the previous ~2.5 centuries of 2% GDP growth, why self driving took so long to crack, and what he sees as the future of education.</p><p>It was a pleasure chatting with him.</p><p>Watch on <a target="_blank" href="https://youtu.be/lXUZvyajciY">YouTube</a>; read the <a target="_blank" href="https://dwarkesh.substack.com/p/andrej-karpathy">transcript</a>.</p><p>Sponsors</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://labelbox.com/dwarkesh">Labelbox</a> helps you get data that is more detailed, more accurate, and higher signal than you could get by default, no matter your domain or training paradigm. Reach out today at <a target="_blank" href="https://labelbox.com/dwarkesh">labelbox.com/dwarkesh</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://mercury.com">Mercury</a> helps you run your business better. It’s the banking platform we use for the podcast — we love that we can see our accounts, cash flows, AR, and AP all in one place. Apply online in minutes at <a target="_blank" href="https://mercury.com">mercury.com</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://blog.google/technology/ai/veo-updates-flow/">Google’s Veo 3.1</a> update is a notable improvement to an already great model. Veo 3.1’s generations are more coherent and the audio is even higher-quality. If you have a Google AI Pro or Ultra plan, you can try it in Gemini today by visiting <a target="_blank" href="https://gemini.google">https://gemini.google</a></p><p>Timestamps</p><p>(00:00:00) – AGI is still a decade away</p><p>(00:29:45) – LLM cognitive deficits</p><p>(00:40:05) – RL is terrible</p><p>(00:49:38) – How do humans learn?</p><p>(01:06:25) – AGI will blend into 2% GDP growth</p><p>(01:17:36) – ASI</p><p>(01:32:50) – Evolution of intelligence & culture</p><p>(01:42:55) - Why self driving took so long</p><p>(01:56:20) - Future of education</p> <br/><br/>Get full access to Dwarkesh Podcast at <a href="https://www.dwarkesh.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_4">www.dwarkesh.com/subscribe</a>
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145 MIN
Nick Lane – Life as we know it is chemically inevitable
OCT 10, 2025
Nick Lane – Life as we know it is chemically inevitable
<p>Nick Lane has some pretty wild ideas about the evolution of life.</p><p>He thinks early life was continuous with the spontaneous chemistry of undersea hydrothermal vents.</p><p>Nick’s story may be wrong, but I find it remarkable that with just that starting point, you can explain so much about why life is the way that it is — the things you’re supposed to just take as givens in biology class:</p><p>* Why are there two sexes? Why sex at all?</p><p>* Why are bacteria so simple despite being around for 4 billion years? Why is there so much shared structure between all eukaryotic cells despite the enormous morphological variety between animals, plants, fungi, and protists?</p><p>* Why did the endosymbiosis event that led to eukaryotes happen only once, and in the particular way that it did?</p><p>* Why is all life powered by proton gradients? Why does all life on Earth share not only the Krebs Cycle, but even the intermediate molecules like Acetyl-CoA?</p><p>His theory implies that early life is almost chemically inevitable (potentially blooming on hundreds of millions of planets in the Milky Way alone), and that the real bottleneck is the complex eukaryotic cell.</p><p>Watch on <a target="_blank" href="https://youtu.be/0GMWxuYuxJI">YouTube</a>; listen on <a target="_blank" href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nick-lane-life-as-we-know-it-is-chemically-inevitable/id1516093381?i=1000731183713">Apple Podcasts</a> or <a target="_blank" href="https://open.spotify.com/episode/2McOZPIv2xvNOlVbOlRDL1?si=dc891b2a159c422d">Spotify</a>.</p><p>Sponsors</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/">Gemini in Sheets</a> lets you turn messy text into structured data. We used it to classify all our episodes by type and topic, no manual tagging required. If you’re a Google Workspace user, you can get started today at <a target="_blank" href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/">docs.google.com/spreadsheets/</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://labelbox.com/dwarkesh">Labelbox</a> has a massive network of domain experts (called Alignerrs) who help train AI models in a way that ensures they understand the world deeply, not superficially. These Alignerrs are true experts — one even tutored me in chemistry as I prepped for this episode. Learn more at <a target="_blank" href="https://labelbox.com/dwarkesh">labelbox.com/dwarkesh</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://lighthousehq.com/employers">Lighthouse</a> helps frontier technology companies like Cursor and Physical Intelligence navigate the U.S. immigration system and hire top talent from around the world. Lighthouse handles everything, maximizing the probability of visa approval while minimizing the work you have to do. Learn more at <a target="_blank" href="https://lighthousehq.com/employers">lighthousehq.com/employers</a></p><p>To sponsor a future episode, visit <a target="_blank" href="https://www.dwarkesh.com/advertise">dwarkesh.com/advertise</a>.</p><p>Timestamps</p><p>(00:00:00) – The singularity that unlocked complex life</p><p>(00:08:26) – Early life continuous with Earth's geochemistry</p><p>(00:23:36) – Eukaryotes are the great filter for intelligent life</p><p>(00:42:16) – Mitochondria are the reason we have sex</p><p>(01:08:12) – Are bioelectric fields linked to consciousness?</p><p>Ref: 868329</p> <br/><br/>Get full access to Dwarkesh Podcast at <a href="https://www.dwarkesh.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_4">www.dwarkesh.com/subscribe</a>
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80 MIN