During COVID, there was one “game night” that changed my life.

We were sitting down to learn a new game, when my wife, Leah, made a comment:

“It’s so funny and a bit frustrating playing board games with you, because you’re too good at figuring out how to win at them.”

(Though the last two nights, Leah has kicked my ass in DC Deck Building)

Anyways…

For some reason, Leah’s comment eventually triggered a question in my mind:

“If I’m so good at figuring out how to win at new games, what would it look like if I designed a game for myself (as a player) to play?”

This SINGULAR question changed my life.

More on that another day, but that’s why I’m SO excited to introduce you to today’s guest, Yu-Kai Chou.

Yu-Kai JUST released a brand new book called “10,000 Hours of Play: Unlock Your Real-Life Legendary Success”

TLDR: It’s the ultimate manual for turning your life into a game that you’ll never want to stop playing.

If you’ve never heard of Yu-Kai, I’ve been a fan of his work for over a year now.

Yu-Kai… 

• Is considered the leading authority on gamification in the world
• Has impacted 1.5 BILLION users around the world
• Was knighted (and eventually promoted to a duke) by the Joseon Imperial Family of Korea

Today we go DEEP into his work on gamification, focusing specifically on his new book.

If you’re someone that wants to (1) create the biggest impact you’re capable of making and (2) have TONS of fun in the process of doing so…

This is an episode you will NOT want to miss!

Show Notes Generated With The Help of AI!

00:00 - Introduction to Beyond Curious and today’s guest, Yu-Kai Chou

Brandon welcomes listeners and introduces Yu-Kai Chou, a globally recognized expert on gamification and behavioral design. He sets the stage for a fun and impactful episode, noting Yu-Kai’s influence on over 1.5 billion user experiences and hinting at stories ranging from gamifying war recovery to noble knighthood.

00:01:39 - From "total loser" to Duke: Yu-Kai’s epic transformation through gamification

Brandon teases three episode highlights, including Yu-Kai’s personal transformation story, the six steps to turn life into a game, and how gamification applies to family life. He also spotlights Yu-Kai’s impressive credentials, including his pioneering Octalysis framework, bestselling books, and recent consulting for President Zelensky’s office in Ukraine.

00:10:41 - The story behind Yu-Kai’s knighthood (and upgrade to Duke)

Brandon and Yu-Kai dive into the whimsical and real story of his knighthood—later promoted to Duke—by the royal family of the defunct Joseon Empire of Korea, which now operates as a digital nation. Yu-Kai explains the crypto-nation-building initiative and why he modestly still refers to himself as a knight.

00:16:14 - From "game-addicted loser" to real-life legend: Yu-Kai’s origin story

Yu-Kai shares a pivotal moment as a high schooler when years of in-game progress were erased as friends moved on. This triggered a life-changing question: what if he played real life like a game? That idea sparked his lifelong pursuit of gamification and making life itself the most rewarding game.

00:22:16 - Life as a game: designing, playing, and thriving

Brandon reflects on his own transformation using game-thinking and how creating a character-player split gave him deeper self-awareness. Yu-Kai expands on this, explaining how real-life "games" lack obvious goals and constraints—so we must design and define them ourselves to play meaningfully.

00:28:01 - The 10K HP framework: six steps to design your legendary life

Yu-Kai introduces the “10K HP” framework—short for 10,000 Hours of Play—offering six gamified steps to build a fulfilling life. He breaks down each step: Choose your game, Know your attributes, Select your role, Enhance your skills, Build your alliance, and Achieve your quest.

00:36:16 - Yu-Kai’s personal game and how he plays it

Yu-Kai shares how his personal game started with three missions: pioneer a new industry, make a global impact, and help others succeed. With playful intensity and a 100-hour workweek (timed in 15-minute increments!), he pursued his goals joyfully—driven not by discipline, but passion for his “game.”

00:43:04 - Blending big vision with family life through gamification

Yu-Kai discusses the powerful mindset shift of including his family in his life’s game. He gamifies parenting with his twin daughters and young son, seeing challenges as engaging design problems. He also redefines success as meeting personal expectations—not society’s—and builds family into that definition.

00:47:48 - Why having kids is a profound part of the game

Yu-Kai opens up about the deep emotional impact of parenting. For him, raising children is like mentoring a younger version of himself. This connection makes the challenges of parenting profoundly meaningful—reinforcing why it’s a central quest in his life’s game.

00:51:08 - Understanding the Strength Triangle: Know your attributes (Step 2)

Yu-Kai explains his "strength triangle," detailing how to identify and rank innate talents. He shares his top attributes—like associative thinking and empathetic intelligence—and shows how aligning activities with your strengths allows you to thrive. He also shares how school once punished his top trait!

00:57:58 - How unique talents evolve through experience and design

Yu-Kai reflects on his early strengths—chess, chemistry, and economics—and how they all stemmed from one shared attribute: visual model creation. Recognizing and doubling down on this gave rise to his signature Octalysis framework and global success in gamification.

Links & Resources:

• Yu-Kai Chou’s Kickstarter Campaign for 10,000 Hours of Play (Live until April 4, 2025)
• Yu-Kai Chou’s website and Octalysis Framework
• Yu-Kai Chou’s first book: Actionable Gamification: Beyond Points, Badges, and Leaderboards
• The Octalysis Group (Gamification consultancy)