Sentientism

This episode is a cross-post of my discussion with Richard Brown on his Consciousness Live YouTube podcast. Make sure you go and subscribe there too.

Richard is a professor of philosophy at City University of New York. His work is focused on the philosophy of mind, consciousness studies, and the foundations of cognitive science but he also works on the philosophy of language, metaethics, philosophy of physics, logic and the philosophy of logic, as well as the history of philosophy. As you can imagine, this made it an enjoyably brain-stretching conversation for me. Richard was also my guest on Sentientism way back on episode 57 if you want to see the tables turned the other way around.

I hope you enjoy listening as much as I did talking with Richard - feedback and suggestions are always welcome. As ever I'm only one Sentientist so others will disagree!

A warm welcome to everyone who has recently joined one of our ⁠⁠online Sentientism communities⁠⁠. More people join us there every day - whether they think of themselves as Sentientists or not. The groups are open to everyone. Just search for the word "Sentientism" on your favourite platforms (⁠⁠FaceBook is our biggest group⁠⁠) and you'll find us there.

Also check out the new ⁠⁠"In action" section⁠⁠ of Sentientism.info. We're building pages there about Sentientist Education, Politics, Rights, Economics, Justice, Agriculture, Environmentalism and more - come and help us work out what a more Sentientist world might look like. 

A final thank you to Denise and Tarabella who found our ⁠⁠Sentientism Patreon⁠⁠ and are kindly contributing to our production costs - helping us steadily nudge the world towards "evidence, reason and compassion".

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Laura is Education Officer at The Vegan Society and Chair of The Vegan Society's Education Network. She is a qualified primary school teacher and well known for introducing the phrase ‘vegan-inclusive education’ to the education sector. Laura worked for several years as the UK’s only vegan inclusion education specialist under the pseudonym ‘Primary Veducation’ and continues to offer training to school staff on what it means to be vegan and how to appropriately teach and treat vegan learners in their care. Laura also empowers vegan learners and parents/guardians by facilitating the creation of peer-developed and reviewed resources and offering supportive interventions.

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!

01:14 Welcome

03:20 Laura's Intro

- Supporting vegan learners & their families in education (vs. discrimination, being misunderstood)

- Former primary school teacher "my first love"

- Supporting the educators. Building the world's first and only CPD (continuous professional development) training course helping educators in being "vegan inclusive"

- Leaving teaching after becoming vegan "I felt that the curriculum clashed with my ethics too much"

- Vegan daughter starts school "They told me that they weren't going to provide a lunch for her... I was crying around the supermarket getting a packed lunch... my daughter is the most compassionate, kind & loving girl... I think she's being discriminated against."

- Working with friends to create the UK's first vegan menu in her school

- Starting "Primary Veducation" as a free consultancy

- "Theorising vegan-inclusive education"

- "To live through that [discrimination] was mind-boggling... I felt like I was by myself... on my own... all of these things were just completely flipped... I had to find this voice... I believed I was the only vegan the village... who would even care?"

- Finding a vegan community. A wave of vegan parents wanting help "I realised it's not just me... shouting in this echo chamber"

- "Everything I'd been taught... by people who I respected... my parents, my teachers, religious leaders... told me that one thing was correct... it wasn't"

- "Everything felt undone... it did feel utterly heartbreaking... something good has come out of it"

11:44 What's Real? - Jewish family. Russian-Latvian-Irish-British

- Grandmother born Christian, converted to #judaism

- Attending Jewish school, Synagogue and Sunday School

- Mother "wanted my brother and I to be the most Jewish we could possibly be so we could fit in... Bar and Bat Mitvah's"

- "Religion... become something... neither of us... are particularly driven by anymore"

- Brother & family atheist

- Valuing Jewish community, tradition, culture, food... "it's familiar"

- "A lot of the just have blind faith and don't question... god did this, god created that, we live the way the 10 commandments tell us to - anything other than that is just outrageous"

25:30 What & Who Matters?

44:57 Making a Better World?

01:17:12 Follow Laura

- Laura at The Vegan Society

- @laura_diamondo

- Veducated:An Educator’s Guide for Vegan Inclusive Teaching

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

This episode is a bonus cross-post of my discussion with fellow Sentientist Amy Halpern-Laff and Jon Moscow on their Ethical Schools podcast. Make sure you go and subscribe there too!

A warm welcome to everyone who has recently joined one of our ⁠online Sentientism communities⁠. More people join us there every day - whether they think of themselves as Sentientists or not. The groups are open to everyone. Just search for the word "Sentientism" on your favourite platforms (⁠FaceBook is our biggest group⁠) and you'll find us there.

Also check out the new ⁠"In action" section⁠ of Sentientism.info. We're building pages there about Sentientist Education, Politics, Rights, Economics, Justice, Agriculture, Environmentalism and more - come and help us work out what a more Sentientist world might look like. 

A final thank you to Denise and Tarabella who found our ⁠Sentientism Patreon⁠ and are kindly contributing to our production costs - helping us steadily nudge the world towards "evidence, reason and compassion".

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Jimmy Videle is a farmer, naturalist & researcher. He is author of The Veganic Grower’s Handbook and co-founder of NAVCS-Certified Veganic. His writing has appeared in many publications including CounterPunch, Countercurrents & LA Progressive.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips! 01:01 Welcome 03:08 Jimmy's Intro - 20 years in farming - A naturalist... observes and scientifically tries to understand nature "my passion". Over 10,000 hours of field research "a lot of time outside" - Author of The Veganic Grower's Handbook "how to grow... without the products of animals or having any animals on the farm" 04:50 What's Real? - German Roman Catholic mother, Italian Catholic father - Church every Sunday, communion at 5-6 yrs old - 12 yrs old heading toward confirmation - Only child, parents divorcing, a tough patch at high school "It's probably a little easier if you have siblings... I went into my own little bubble... I always felt very comfortable alone" - Attending weekly catechism, dad asks if Jimmy still wants to go... "Dad... I really wanna just play baseball... this was our religion!" - "When you're really worried about what people are thinking about you you spend less time delving into the bigger questions... at that time it was the purpose of... 'I want people to like me'" - Music scholarship to college in California... meeting lifelong friends... hippy influence... "this idea that love could rule all... the biggest moment - flash of my life... wow love" - "The idea of god... I was never totally comfortable" - Having to confess sins "I didn't have any... I'd have to make something up..." - "I always believed that there was god... but I always had a tough time with this god... always judging us... always making us feel bad... like victims... and we're only going to be saved when we die... when we have a chance... to go to heaven" - In my 19-20''s "I realised that wasn't going to be my path" - The #iching & "Animal Spirit Guides" by Steven Farmer "Maybe nature is also telling me something... nature has a message and all I have to do is listen and learn" - "I have my hands actually in the earth... I'm feeling something that most people don't" - Living on top of some of the earth's oldest rocks "I also want to believe that that rock has knowledge from 4 billion years ago" - "For me... a bacterium is as sentient as I am" - "Maybe it is all natural... maybe there's nothing mystical about it at all... start thinking about what it is to be a wolf or a deer or a hemlock tree... how can we see the world then?" - "To even believe that we are the only sentient being on the planet... it's as arrogant as we can get" - "What I believe now... #animism... the original religion... maybe it's the way nature looks at the world... every living being has a breath or a soul... anima..."

32:03 What and Who Matters? 01:09:03 A Better World? 01:41:32 Follow Jimmy - Facebook - The Veganic Growers Handbook - observatory.wiki/Jimmy_Videle - humaneherald.org/publications/ - Certified Veganic - Boileau Biodiversity Crowdfunder

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

Troy Vettese is an environmental historian who specializes in environmental economics, animal studies, and energy history. In 2019 he completed his doctorate in history at New York University. From 2019 to 2021, he worked at Harvard University as a William Lyon Mackenzie King postdoctoral research fellow. He has collaborated with Drew Pendergrass, an environmental engineer, on numerous projects including their book Half-Earth Socialism: A Plan to Save the Future from Extinction, Climate Change and Pandemics .

Troy is currently revising his dissertation on neoliberal environmental thought into a book, tentatively titled 'Beyond Externality'. In addition to his academic work, Vettese writes on a wide array of environmental topics for a popular audience, and has had essays published in the Guardian, the New Statesman, Jacobin, N+1, Book Forum, and Boston Review.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!

01:04 Welcome

02:58 Troy's Intro

- Half-Earth Socialism "what does it look like to have an ecologically stable society... a good relationship with other beings on this planet and also to ensure a good life for everyone"

- The Half-Earth Socialism computer game & maybe a future board-game

05:44 What's Real?

- #Ecosocialism and #neoliberalism in conversation with each other

- Growing up in a fairly conservative but non-religious household

- Being a Young Tory, reading Milton Friedman

- In early 20's "a crisis of faith in terms of this conservative worldview" due to the Iraq war and the 2008 financial crisis

- Reading Marx and New Left Review

- Exploring the environmental crisis

- A sensitive child, then a toxic masculinity phase as a teenager (callous, eating meat, machismo), then, alongside the crisis of faith in conservatism, a wish to return to childhood passion for nature

- Gravitating towards ecosocialism

- Didn't "grow up with red diapers" (being brought up in a left wing family) so feeling inoculated as knows the political right very well as "I came from the right to the left"

- #greenwashing measures "I wanted to understand where these ideas had come from... no one had done an intellectual history of these things"

- Challenging the common leftist view that the right & neoliberalism doesn't have any real intellectual depth "I took it more seriously than most socialists"

- "I thought the left should have more concrete ideas of their own... match the rigour of these conservative ones"

- "'We'll figure it out after the revolution'... that's not enough"

- Mother who ran for the Green party in elections

- Not religious now

- "Sceptical of thinking that there's one true path... one true way of relating to each other or to animals"... relativism, Kuhnian (paradigms)?

- The neoliberal view of the market as the optimal information processor

- Being rational but also appreciating the spiritual/subliminal/subjective? "that's why I'm a big bird watcher"

- The "spark bird" that gets you into #birdwatching

- #deleuze "Becoming animal" vs. #Haraway's notion of "becoming with"

17:50 What Matters?

27:33 Who Matters?

54:15 A Better World?

01:29:55 Follow Troy ...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!