螺丝在拧紧

<p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><img data-key="0" src="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/b209-audiofreehighqps/48/32/GKwRIJIM6iTGAA-L7gQ0qWE0.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" alt="" data-origin="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/b209-audiofreehighqps/48/32/GKwRIJIM6iTGAA-L7gQ0qWE0.jpg?op_type=0" data-large="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/b209-audiofreehighqps/48/32/GKwRIJIM6iTGAA-L7gQ0qWE0.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" data-large-width="750" data-large-height="746.625" data-preview="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/b209-audiofreehighqps/48/32/GKwRIJIM6iTGAA-L7gQ0qWE0.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_small" data-preview-width="140" data-preview-height="139.37"><br></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">本期声音｜胡泳，北京大学新闻与传播学院教授</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">主播｜吴琦，单读主编</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">机器人会帮你养老吗？和人工智能聊天，和猫猫狗狗玩耍，能代替人的陪伴吗？为什么在新技术的承诺前，我们感到焦虑不安？</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">本期「螺丝在拧紧」，主播吴琦回到母校，带着新问题对话曾经的老师、北京大学新闻与传播学院<b>胡泳</b>教授。作为中国互联网早期的学术引路人，胡老师仍持续关注着数字社会的变迁；去年，因《当一位北大教授成为<span> 24 </span>小时照护者》一文，许多人才了解到他切身地走入了对照护与养老的研究<span>——</span>而照护与养老，恰恰是这个技术狂热的社会尚未解决的难题。</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">在这场交谈中，胡泳回望了自己从<span>“</span>技术乐观主义者<span>”</span>到<span>“</span>批判现实主义者<span>”</span>的思想转变，并提出在变动中的三个锚点：<b>身体、关系与环境</b>。他提醒我们，对一波波浪潮保持敏感的同时，也要找到自己的<span>“</span>中间位置<span>”</span>。</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">这期对谈如同在风浪中，为我们标定出几座<span>“</span>理性的岛屿<span>”</span>，你或许能从中找到一个可以停靠和发力的位置，重新思考我们与技术、与他人、与这个世界的关系。</p><p style="font-size:16px;line-height:30px;color:#333333;font-weight:normal;" data-flag="normal">从相似的问题意识出发，今年单向街基金会发起<span>“</span><b>共同叙事</b><span>”</span>创作者支持计划，由重庆腾讯可持续发展基金会资助，单读作为战略协同伙伴参与运营。我们希望与胡泳等议题召集人一起，寻找看见科技作为关键变量对人类未来与社会可持续发展的影响。<b>作品申报截止<span> 12 </span>月<span> 1 </span>日</b>，期待你以非虚构的方式，参与这次<span>“</span>共同叙事<span>”</span>。</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span><img data-key="1" src="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/fd8c-audiofreehighqps/2E/A1/GKwRIW4M6iSWAA_ftwQ0qUCg.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" alt="" data-origin="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/fd8c-audiofreehighqps/2E/A1/GKwRIW4M6iSWAA_ftwQ0qUCg.jpg?op_type=0" data-large="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/fd8c-audiofreehighqps/2E/A1/GKwRIW4M6iSWAA_ftwQ0qUCg.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" data-large-width="750" data-large-height="412.5263651277244" data-preview="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/fd8c-audiofreehighqps/2E/A1/GKwRIW4M6iSWAA_ftwQ0qUCg.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_small" data-preview-width="140" data-preview-height="77.00492149050855"></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><img data-key="2" src="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/3755-audiofreehighqps/41/6F/GKwRIUEM6iSkAA18zgQ0qUhm.png!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" alt="" data-origin="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/3755-audiofreehighqps/41/6F/GKwRIUEM6iSkAA18zgQ0qUhm.png?op_type=0" data-large="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/3755-audiofreehighqps/41/6F/GKwRIUEM6iSkAA18zgQ0qUhm.png!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" data-large-width="750" data-large-height="428.52120928052494" data-preview="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/3755-audiofreehighqps/41/6F/GKwRIUEM6iSkAA18zgQ0qUhm.png!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_small" data-preview-width="140" data-preview-height="79.99062573236466"><br></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">｜时间线｜<span><br>05:27</span>胡泳：大学不应该是象牙塔，应该是十字街头<span><br>14:05 </span>为什么说技术能让人性发生迁移<span><br>17:18“</span>新媒体这个词已经老了<span>”<br>20:49 </span>社会变化像钟摆，那什么东西稳居中间？<span><br>——</span>具身性，努力让身体在场<span><br>——</span>关系性，离开自身向外走<span><br>——</span>回归环境，刨除人类中心主义的视角<span><br>30:14 </span>从一个技术乐观主义者，到对技术持批判态度<span><br></span>暴论：《乔布斯是互联网历史上最大的<span>“</span>罪人<span>”</span>》<span><br>39:22 “</span>仅仅是看到他人的面孔，就能够唤起你自己的责任<span>”<br>44:43 </span>面对公众说话，<span>“</span>不要上不着天，下不着地<span>”<br>53:58 &nbsp;</span>媒体工作正在<span>“</span>社工化<span>”</span>？<span><br>56:07“</span>共同叙事<span>”</span>创作者支持计划是什么？<span><br>59:12 &nbsp;</span>在不确定的海洋中，建立一些理智的岛屿，也就够了<span><br>1:05:22 &nbsp;</span>吴琦：身处激烈的现场，为什么国内对技术的研究与产业发展不匹配？<span><br></span>胡泳：中国作为后发国家，有一种赶超逻辑，<span>“</span>大家都在不停地赶路<span>”<br>1:13:50 &nbsp;</span>复杂问题，需要<span>“</span>长形式<span>”</span>内容来处理</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">｜工具箱｜<span><br></span><span>-</span><span>谈话中提到的书籍</span><span><br></span><span>《螺丝在拧紧》，亨利</span><span>·</span><span>詹姆斯著</span><span><br></span><span>《众声喧哗》，胡泳著</span><span><br></span><span>《网络为王》，胡泳著</span><span><br></span><span>《全球开放互联网的歧途》，胡泳著</span><span><br></span><span>《数字化生存》，尼葛洛庞帝著，胡泳、范海燕译</span><span><br></span><span>《认知盈余》，克莱</span><span>·</span><span>舍基著，胡泳、哈丽丝译</span><span><br></span><span>《未来是湿的》，克莱</span><span>·</span><span>舍基著，胡泳、沈满琳译</span><span><br></span><span>《英国病人》，迈克尔</span><span>·</span><span>翁达杰著</span><span><br><br></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">｜互动方式｜<span><br></span>如果你对本期话题或本节目有任何想法或问题，请大胆在各收听平台评论区留言，或者微博吴琦<span>@</span>五七，与主播互动。</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">｜本期封面｜<span><br></span>摄影：吴琦<span><br><br></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span><span>｜关于「螺丝在拧紧」｜<span><br></span></span></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span><span>监制：彭倩媛<span><br></span>制作人：胡亚萍<span><br></span>编辑：菜市场<span><br></span>剪辑：椋生<span><br></span>视觉设计：李政坷<span><br></span>节目运营：刘雨萱<span><br></span>原创音乐：徐逍潇</span></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>实习生：王泓鑫</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><img data-key="3" src="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/a5a8-audiofreehighqps/D0/FB/GAqhqKwM6iS0AAnkfAQ0qVJH.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" alt="" data-origin="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/a5a8-audiofreehighqps/D0/FB/GAqhqKwM6iS0AAnkfAQ0qVJH.jpg?op_type=0" data-large="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/a5a8-audiofreehighqps/D0/FB/GAqhqKwM6iS0AAnkfAQ0qVJH.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" data-large-width="750" data-large-height="1314.2542652724271" data-preview="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/a5a8-audiofreehighqps/D0/FB/GAqhqKwM6iS0AAnkfAQ0qVJH.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_small" data-preview-width="140" data-preview-height="245.32746285085304"></p>

<p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><img data-key="0" src="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/c7e6-audiofreehighqps/4C/3E/GKwRIRwM4NV4AAcArwQwfNlj.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" alt="" data-origin="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/c7e6-audiofreehighqps/4C/3E/GKwRIRwM4NV4AAcArwQwfNlj.jpg?op_type=0" data-large="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/c7e6-audiofreehighqps/4C/3E/GKwRIRwM4NV4AAcArwQwfNlj.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" data-large-width="750" data-large-height="750" data-preview="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/c7e6-audiofreehighqps/4C/3E/GKwRIRwM4NV4AAcArwQwfNlj.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_small" data-preview-width="140" data-preview-height="140"><br></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">本期声音｜王晚，《跑外卖：一个女骑手的世界》作者</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">主播｜吴琦，单读主编</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">近年来，我们常常读到记者采写外卖骑手的故事，或是学者对外卖平台算法的分析，却少有机会进入骑手自己搭建的叙事。在那些飞驰的身影中，女骑手的存在更是一个沉默的少数。</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">而王晚打破了这种沉默。在新书《跑外卖：一个女骑手的世界》里，她写下淡季仍跑单<span> 14 </span>小时的疲惫、雨天湿透的胸罩黏在皮肤上的不适、过度劳累后的经期紊乱<span>——</span>有的是骑手们共同的经历，有的是作为女骑手的独特体验，它们第一次被如此细致地书写。</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">在本期「螺丝在拧紧」的「在末日读书」栏目的对谈中，主播吴琦与王晚还聊起了她的<span>“</span>前史<span>”</span>。生于山东农村的她，很早就爱读鲁迅、卡夫卡、契诃夫，一边害怕自己成了格格不入的<span>“</span>神经病<span>”</span>，一边抓着这些书从原有的生活中<span>“</span>攀援<span>”</span>而上。</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>这期节目讲的不仅仅是一个女骑手的故事，还是一位身处边缘的女性对抗孤独、重建自我的历程。小时候，她在废弃的房屋里翻找书籍，现在，她在送餐路上拐进公园看花，把每一次跑单当作历险。<b>无论身处何种环境，都有向前走一步的能量</b><span>——</span>这是王晚带给我们的叙事。</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><img data-key="1" src="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/a776-audiofreehighqps/07/B1/GAqhntAM4NWEAAcCSAQwfN95.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" alt="" data-origin="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/a776-audiofreehighqps/07/B1/GAqhntAM4NWEAAcCSAQwfN95.jpg?op_type=0" data-large="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/a776-audiofreehighqps/07/B1/GAqhntAM4NWEAAcCSAQwfN95.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" data-large-width="750" data-large-height="495.13709866416684" data-preview="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/a776-audiofreehighqps/07/B1/GAqhntAM4NWEAAcCSAQwfN95.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_small" data-preview-width="140" data-preview-height="92.42559175064449"><br></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><img data-key="2" src="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/871c-audiofreehighqps/EC/79/GAqh4zIM4NWUAA18zgQwfOdS.png!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" alt="" data-origin="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/871c-audiofreehighqps/EC/79/GAqh4zIM4NWUAA18zgQwfOdS.png?op_type=0" data-large="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/871c-audiofreehighqps/EC/79/GAqh4zIM4NWUAA18zgQwfOdS.png!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" data-large-width="750" data-large-height="428.52120928052494" data-preview="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/871c-audiofreehighqps/EC/79/GAqh4zIM4NWUAA18zgQwfOdS.png!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_small" data-preview-width="140" data-preview-height="79.99062573236466"><br></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">｜时间线｜<span><br>04:12 </span>出书后得到关心，<span>“</span>我有一些手足无措<span>”</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>11:05 </span>王晚：小时候不知道读书有什么用，只觉着这东西能帮到我</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>13:02 </span>你很早就划清了课本和别的书的界限？</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>——</span>我喜欢有个性的东西</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>24:17 </span>王晚：我和我娘唯一不同的是，我从不会把别人的使命当作是我自己的</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>29:00 </span>贫穷时，<span>“</span>阅读是我为自己做的仅有的事<span>”</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>32:42 </span>一回老家，<span>“</span>你没有办法保持思想的独立性<span>”</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>40:31 </span>吴琦：作者出书之前的<span>“</span>史前史<span>”</span>，都是有痕迹的</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>52:35 </span>王晚：跑外卖让我实现了<span>“</span>精神独立<span>”</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>57:15 </span>一个不顺从的人，怎么面对外卖的规则？</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>01:02:13 </span>跑外卖考验你的计算能力、判断能力、观察能力、瞬间决策力</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>01:05:28 </span>大家批判外卖平台的系统时，你怎么看？</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>01:12:34 “</span>辛辛苦苦走到这，发现还是辛辛苦苦<span>”</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>01:15:37 </span>人生最终的追求，是变成一个有智慧的人<span><br><br></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">｜工具箱｜<span><br></span><span>-</span><span>谈话中提到的书籍</span><span><br></span><span>《跑外卖：一个女骑手的世界》，王晚著</span><span><br></span><span>《百年孤独》，加西亚</span><span>·</span><span>马尔克斯著</span><span><br></span><span>《黑铁时代》，王小波著</span><span><br></span><span>《世界观》，理查德</span><span>·</span><span>德威特著</span><span><br><br></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">｜本期音乐｜<span><br></span>面会菜，林生祥<span><br></span>有信心，尧十三<span><br><br></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">｜互动方式｜<span><br></span>如果你对本期话题或本节目有任何想法或问题，请大胆在各收听平台评论区留言，或者微博吴琦<span>@</span>五七，与主播互动。</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">｜本期封面｜<span><br></span>摄影：吴琦<span><br><br></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">｜关于「螺丝在拧紧」｜<span><br></span>监制：彭倩媛<span><br></span>制作人：胡亚萍<span><br></span>编辑：菜市场<span><br></span>剪辑：椋生<span><br></span>视觉设计：李政坷<span><br></span>节目运营：刘雨萱<span><br></span>原创音乐：徐逍潇<span><br></span>实习生：王泓鑫</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><img data-key="3" src="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/50a2-audiofreehighqps/A4/BA/GKwRIRwM4NW7AAnkfAQwfPTk.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" alt="" data-origin="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/50a2-audiofreehighqps/A4/BA/GKwRIRwM4NW7AAnkfAQwfPTk.jpg?op_type=0" data-large="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/50a2-audiofreehighqps/A4/BA/GKwRIRwM4NW7AAnkfAQwfPTk.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" data-large-width="750" data-large-height="1314.2542652724271" data-preview="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/50a2-audiofreehighqps/A4/BA/GKwRIRwM4NW7AAnkfAQwfPTk.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_small" data-preview-width="140" data-preview-height="245.32746285085304"><br></p>

<p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><img data-key="0" src="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/389d-audiofreehighqps/0E/27/GKwRIRwMxT5YAAMGtgQi4uDD.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" alt="" data-origin="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/389d-audiofreehighqps/0E/27/GKwRIRwMxT5YAAMGtgQi4uDD.jpg?op_type=0" data-large="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/389d-audiofreehighqps/0E/27/GKwRIRwMxT5YAAMGtgQi4uDD.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" data-large-width="750" data-large-height="750" data-preview="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/389d-audiofreehighqps/0E/27/GKwRIRwMxT5YAAMGtgQi4uDD.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_small" data-preview-width="140" data-preview-height="140"><br></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">本期声音｜林雪虹，《林门郑氏》作者</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;">主播｜吴琦，单读主编</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">有没有某个时刻，你突然在自己身上发现了母亲父亲的影子<span>——</span>而你害怕成为那样的人？</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">马来西亚作家林雪虹已经离家<span> 20 </span>年了，因为母亲查出癌症晚期，她回到那个有两个姐姐、一个妹妹、一个弟弟和一个暴戾父亲的家庭。母亲去世后，她在账本、彩票等遗物中，重新看见她曾经害怕成为的人：一个斤斤计较，为生活奔忙的女人。</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">《林门郑氏》这本书，是她回看母亲与自己的来处的方式。在本期「螺丝在拧紧」，也是我们「在末日读书」栏目新一期的对话中，主播吴琦问林雪虹：<span>“</span>更像你的母亲，和更像你的父亲，哪一种会让你觉得更可怕？<span>”</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><b><span>“</span>像母亲令我更加毛骨悚然，<span>”</span>她说，<span>“</span>因为我和她是同一个性别的。<span>”</span></b></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">母亲被家庭拦着无法升学，后来又一生被金钱所困、为婚姻所累；林雪虹从小到大都是优等生，远走异乡，<span>35 </span>岁辞职选择写作为生，两人的命运看上去截然不同。但是人生走到中场，通过写作去回望时，她才能看见两名女性的痛苦中息息相关的部分。即使是在我们尽力远离的回忆里，也有为我们提供理解并因此不再感到孤独的事物，这会是阅读和写作带来的安慰吗？</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">｜时间线｜<span><br>05:52&nbsp;35 </span>岁决定辞职写作？从一个周日下午的文学时刻说起<span>&nbsp;<br>23:22</span>林雪虹：写作是我的生活方式<span><br>26:45&nbsp;</span>书写母亲时，本希望像医学人类学家一样客观记录<span><br>32:23</span>母亲一开始像<span>“</span>瘦弱的猫<span>”</span>，后来像<span>“</span>过街老鼠<span>”<br>35:56</span>不作为作家，而作为女儿的林雪虹在想些什么？<span><br>37:58“</span>我身上住着一个小林金水<span>”</span>，父亲的影子在什么时候出现<span><br>45:34</span>那个在家暴力，在外自卑的<span>“</span>一家之主<span>”<br>55:06&nbsp;</span>吴琦：雄性的威慑下，一个个女性被迫扮演家庭润滑剂的角色<span><br>01:03:08&nbsp;</span>林雪虹：比起父亲，像母亲令我更加毛骨悚然<span><br>01:15:32&nbsp;“</span>天使就是死神<span>”</span>，这到底是什么意思？<span><br>01:25:55</span>吴琦：为什么人在这里，却总向往别的地方？<span><br>01:30:00&nbsp;</span>两种中产阶级生活：伯格曼电影里的的光鲜<span> vs </span>侯麦电影里的坦然<span><br><img data-key="1" src="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/531e-audiofreehighqps/7A/AE/GAqh_aQMxT5rAAZa7AQi4uvb.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" alt="" data-origin="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/531e-audiofreehighqps/7A/AE/GAqh_aQMxT5rAAZa7AQi4uvb.jpg?op_type=0" data-large="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/531e-audiofreehighqps/7A/AE/GAqh_aQMxT5rAAZa7AQi4uvb.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" data-large-width="750" data-large-height="498.00843486410497" data-preview="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/531e-audiofreehighqps/7A/AE/GAqh_aQMxT5rAAZa7AQi4uvb.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_small" data-preview-width="140" data-preview-height="92.96157450796626"><img data-key="2" src="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/1e75-audiofreehighqps/15/E0/GAqhfD0MxT57AA18zgQi4vQ2.png!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" alt="" data-origin="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/1e75-audiofreehighqps/15/E0/GAqhfD0MxT57AA18zgQi4vQ2.png?op_type=0" data-large="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/1e75-audiofreehighqps/15/E0/GAqhfD0MxT57AA18zgQi4vQ2.png!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" data-large-width="750" data-large-height="428.52120928052494" data-preview="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/1e75-audiofreehighqps/15/E0/GAqhfD0MxT57AA18zgQi4vQ2.png!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_small" data-preview-width="140" data-preview-height="79.99062573236466"><br></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">｜工具箱｜<span><br></span><span>-</span><span>谈话中提到的书籍</span><span><br></span><span>《林门郑氏》，林雪虹著《别处的月光》，林雪虹著</span><span><br><br>-</span>谈话中提到的影视作品<span><br></span><span>《第七封印》（</span><span>1957</span><span>），导演：英格玛</span><span>·</span><span>伯格曼</span><span><br></span><span>《野草莓》（</span><span>1957</span><span>），导演：英格玛</span><span>·</span><span>伯格曼</span><span><br></span><span>《芬尼与亚历山大》（</span><span>1982</span><span>），导演：英格玛</span><span>·</span><span>伯格曼</span><span><br></span><span>《弗兰</span><span>·</span><span>勒博维茨：假装我们在城市》（</span><span>2021</span><span>），导演：马丁</span><span>·</span><span>斯科塞斯</span><span><br><br></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">｜本期音乐｜<span><br></span>有无，林生祥<span><br></span>姆妈莫惊惊胆胆大，林生祥<span><br><br></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">｜互动方式｜<span><br></span>如果你对本期话题或本节目有任何想法或问题，请大胆在各收听平台评论区留言，或者微博吴琦<span>@</span>五七，与主播互动。</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">｜本期封面｜<span><br></span>摄影：吴琦<span><br><br></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span><span>｜关于「螺丝在拧紧」｜<span><br></span></span></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span><span>监制：彭倩媛<span><br></span>制作人：胡亚萍<span><br></span>编辑：菜市场<span><br></span>剪辑：椋生<span><br></span>视觉设计：李政坷 欧梦婷<span><br></span>节目运营：刘雨萱<span><br></span>原创音乐：徐逍潇</span></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>实习生：王泓鑫</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span><img data-key="3" src="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/2f07-audiofreehighqps/2C/01/GKwRIaIMxT6NAAnkfAQi4v_g.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" alt="" data-origin="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/2f07-audiofreehighqps/2C/01/GKwRIaIMxT6NAAnkfAQi4v_g.jpg?op_type=0" data-large="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/2f07-audiofreehighqps/2C/01/GKwRIaIMxT6NAAnkfAQi4v_g.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" data-large-width="750" data-large-height="1314.2542652724271" data-preview="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/2f07-audiofreehighqps/2C/01/GKwRIaIMxT6NAAnkfAQi4v_g.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_small" data-preview-width="140" data-preview-height="245.32746285085304"><br></span></p>

<p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><img data-key="0" src="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/3930-audiofreehighqps/E5/F2/GAqh9sAMqZYQAALlIgQWJOd2.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" alt="" data-origin="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/3930-audiofreehighqps/E5/F2/GAqh9sAMqZYQAALlIgQWJOd2.jpg?op_type=0" data-large="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/3930-audiofreehighqps/E5/F2/GAqh9sAMqZYQAALlIgQWJOd2.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" data-large-width="750" data-large-height="750" data-preview="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/3930-audiofreehighqps/E5/F2/GAqh9sAMqZYQAALlIgQWJOd2.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_small" data-preview-width="140" data-preview-height="140"><br></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">本期声音｜张赛，《在工厂梦不到工厂：如此工作二十年》作者</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">何珊珊，《在工厂梦不到工厂：如此工作二十年》编辑</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">主播｜吴琦，单读主编</p><span><br></span><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">你会怎么和人描述自己每一天的工作？对于在卫生巾厂工作的张赛而言，出现频率最高的词是<span>“</span>重复<span>”——</span>你的工作是重复的，你说的话是重复的，你吃的饭菜是重复的，连你脑子里面的想法，都是重复的。</p><span><br></span><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">《在工厂梦不到工厂：如此工作二十年》一书，就诞生于这样的重复之中。本期「螺丝在拧紧」，主播吴琦和本书作者张赛、编辑何珊珊，聊了聊这本书成型的过程。</p><span><br></span><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">自<span>&nbsp;2003&nbsp;</span>年初中毕业，张赛已经工作了<span>&nbsp;22&nbsp;</span>年。人生中的大部分时间，他都待在工厂里，甚至一度停止了他曾经喜爱的读书和写作。直到<span>&nbsp;2020&nbsp;</span>年疫情期间，他又拿起笔记录，写作从一种兴趣爱好，变成生活的出口。在工厂的噪音与粉尘中，在十二小时制的工作里，他不断靠近更像自己的那一面<span>——</span>一个<span>“</span>书呆子<span>”</span>，一个愿意拿笔写下自己与工友的生活、写下机器轰鸣声中内心的呐喊的人。</p><span><br></span><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">这期节目里，张赛将带我们看见两个陌生的世界：工厂与工友的世界，还有他心里的小世界。但最终，或许你会像珊珊一样，越来越看到我们的相同之处<span>——<b>“</b></span><b>我们为何都爱上了读书，为何都愿意去思考这些问题？<span>”</span></b>并且，开始拿起笔来，为自己写作。</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span><img data-key="1" src="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/9bc9-audiofreehighqps/4C/F7/GKwRIMAMqZasAANosgQWJUD1.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" alt="" data-origin="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/9bc9-audiofreehighqps/4C/F7/GKwRIMAMqZasAANosgQWJUD1.jpg?op_type=0" data-large="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/9bc9-audiofreehighqps/4C/F7/GKwRIMAMqZasAANosgQWJUD1.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" data-large-width="750" data-large-height="462.863167760075" data-preview="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/9bc9-audiofreehighqps/4C/F7/GKwRIMAMqZasAANosgQWJUD1.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_small" data-preview-width="140" data-preview-height="86.40112464854732"><img data-key="2" src="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/5219-audiofreehighqps/BC/9F/GAqh9sAMqZa4AAS3WQQWJUbd.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" alt="" data-origin="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/5219-audiofreehighqps/BC/9F/GAqh9sAMqZa4AAS3WQQWJUbd.jpg?op_type=0" data-large="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/5219-audiofreehighqps/BC/9F/GAqh9sAMqZa4AAS3WQQWJUbd.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" data-large-width="750" data-large-height="462.863167760075" data-preview="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/5219-audiofreehighqps/BC/9F/GAqh9sAMqZa4AAS3WQQWJUbd.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_small" data-preview-width="140" data-preview-height="86.40112464854732"><img data-key="3" src="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/8e41-audiofreehighqps/2D/4B/GAqhfD0MqZbIAAGjxAQWJU7I.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" alt="" data-origin="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/8e41-audiofreehighqps/2D/4B/GAqhfD0MqZbIAAGjxAQWJU7I.jpg?op_type=0" data-large="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/8e41-audiofreehighqps/2D/4B/GAqhfD0MqZbIAAGjxAQWJU7I.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" data-large-width="750" data-large-height="428.466796875" data-preview="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/8e41-audiofreehighqps/2D/4B/GAqhfD0MqZbIAAGjxAQWJU7I.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_small" data-preview-width="140" data-preview-height="79.98046875"></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">｜时间线｜<span><br>04:28&nbsp;</span>张赛拒绝单读又回来？复婚式的出书过程&nbsp;<span><br>13:11&nbsp;</span>谈三年磨一剑：<span>“</span>主要的原因就是我没写<span>”<br>24:00&nbsp;</span>编辑何珊珊：越看稿，越能看见自己和张赛的相同之处<span><br>30:06&nbsp;</span>吴琦：从张赛的亲身经验中，能读懂批判现代性的理论<span><br>38:37 “</span>休息是工厂一天里最放松的时间，就像夹心饼干中间最好吃的部分<span>”<br>42:19&nbsp;</span>工厂工作就是不断重复<span>——</span>而这本书就诞生于重复之中<span><br>52:47&nbsp;</span>张赛：写作从兴趣，变成了我生活的一个出口<span><br>58:41&nbsp;</span>何珊珊：喜爱读书也是天赋的一部分！<span><br>01:01:10 “</span>人如果不挣扎，不主动去做一些事，就只是环境在塑造人<span>”<br>01:12:12&nbsp;</span>工厂中的性别问题：工厂有一半人都是女工，但制度好像看不见她们<span><br>01:20:10&nbsp;</span>离开工厂，因为送外卖自由，送了外卖，又觉得在工厂安稳<span><br>01:24:32&nbsp;</span>张赛反过来鞭策了编辑的写作？<span><br><br></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">｜工具箱｜<span><br></span><span>-</span><span>谈话中提到的书籍</span><span><br></span><span>《在工厂梦不到工厂：如此工作二十年》，张赛著</span><span><br></span><span>《八十年代访谈录》，查建英主编</span><span><br></span><span><br>-</span><span>谈话中提到的</span>影视<span><br></span><span>《杀马特我爱你》（</span><span>2019</span><span>），导演：李一凡</span><span><br><br></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">｜本期音乐｜<span><br></span>别怕 我在，隔壁老樊<span><br>A Beautiful Person (Feat. Balming Tiger)</span>，<span>IU</span></p><span><br></span><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">｜互动方式｜<span><br></span>如果你对本期话题或本节目有任何想法或问题，请大胆在各收听平台评论区留言，或者微博吴琦<span>@</span>五七，与主播互动。</p><span><br></span><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">｜本期封面｜<span><br></span>摄影：吴琦<span><br><br></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">｜关于「螺丝在拧紧」｜<span><br></span>监制：彭倩媛<span><br></span>制作人：胡亚萍<span><br></span>编辑：菜市场<span><br></span>剪辑：椋生<span><br></span>视觉设计：李政坷 欧梦婷<span><br></span>节目运营：刘雨萱<span><br></span>原创音乐：徐逍潇<span><br></span>实习生：王泓鑫</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><img data-key="4" src="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/e877-audiofreehighqps/29/BA/GAqhntAMqZbUAAnkfAQWJVRv.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" alt="" data-origin="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/e877-audiofreehighqps/29/BA/GAqhntAMqZbUAAnkfAQWJVRv.jpg?op_type=0" data-large="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/e877-audiofreehighqps/29/BA/GAqhntAMqZbUAAnkfAQWJVRv.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" data-large-width="750" data-large-height="1314.2542652724271" data-preview="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/e877-audiofreehighqps/29/BA/GAqhntAMqZbUAAnkfAQWJVRv.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_small" data-preview-width="140" data-preview-height="245.32746285085304"><br></p>

<p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><img data-key="0" src="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/3e45-audiofreehighqps/1B/2F/GKwRIUEMlFrFAAQvsQQLCUvK.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" alt="" data-origin="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/3e45-audiofreehighqps/1B/2F/GKwRIUEMlFrFAAQvsQQLCUvK.jpg?op_type=0" data-large="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/3e45-audiofreehighqps/1B/2F/GKwRIUEMlFrFAAQvsQQLCUvK.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" data-large-width="750" data-large-height="750" data-preview="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/3e45-audiofreehighqps/1B/2F/GKwRIUEMlFrFAAQvsQQLCUvK.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_small" data-preview-width="140" data-preview-height="140"><br></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">主播｜吴琦，单读主编</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">本期声音｜沈奇岚，本次活动学术策划，策展人、艺术评论家、文化学者</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">贺婧，哲学博士，艺术批评家</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">孙熳，天目里美术馆策展及藏品部主任，策展人、译者</p><span><br></span><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span><span><span>每次莫奈、梵高的原作来国内展出，画前都是里三层外三层。说起西方艺术，一下子想起的仍然是向日葵和睡莲。如此被大众喜爱的</span></span><span><span>印象派</span></span><span><span>，为什么在近两百年后的今天，还被认为是新鲜甚至先锋的？</span></span></span></p><span><br></span><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span><span><span>正值</span></span><span><span>“缔造现代：来自巴黎奥赛博物馆的艺术瑰宝”</span></span><span><span>国际大展</span></span><span><span>来</span></span><span><span>到</span></span><span><span>上海浦东美术馆</span></span><span><span>，</span><span>「</span></span><span><span>螺丝</span></span><span><span>在</span></span><span><span>拧紧」</span></span><span><span>联</span></span><span><span>合</span></span><span><span>展览独家品牌合作伙伴</span></span><span><span>兰蔻</span></span><span><span>的「艺谈会客厅」</span></span><span><span>，</span></span><span><span>从我们熟悉的印象派作品中，读出通往现代的道路。主播</span></span><span><span>吴琦</span></span><span><span>对话本系列学术策划</span></span><span><span>沈奇岚</span></span><span><span>、艺术批评家</span></span><span><span>贺婧</span></span><span><span>、</span></span><span><span><span>天目里美术馆策展人</span></span><span><span>孙熳</span></span><span><span>，走近</span></span><span><span>马奈、莫奈和塞尚</span></span><span><span>这三位“缔造现代目光的先锋者”。</span></span></span></span></p><span><br></span><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>马奈——为什么他画中人物的眼神都那么冷漠？莫奈——他画的是一瞬，还是浓缩的时间？塞尚——他下笔为什么那么难、那么慢？对印象派及其他绘画先锋者有热情也有研究的学者们，带我们从 19 世纪法国的时代变化说起，进入绘画的具体细节。</span></p><span><br></span><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span><span><span><span>她们对“绘画已死”深感不然，因为我们现在观看世界的方式，还继续受到印象派先锋精神的启发（新的画法？不，是新的看法）。对谈的最后引用了马奈的一段话：</span></span></span><span><span><span>“</span></span></span><span><span><span>艺术家不是要让大家来看完美的作品，</span></span></span><span><span><span>而是来看诚实的作品。这些作品的诚实性</span></span></span><span><span><span>的</span></span></span><span><span><span>效果之一就是，它们看起来可能表明着一种抗议，然而</span></span></span><span><span><span>该艺术家只是</span></span></span><span><span><span>在传达着自己的印象。”</span></span></span></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><img data-key="1" src="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/f633-audiofreehighqps/77/9A/GAqh1QQMlFyoAAlKpgQLCjzi.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" alt="" data-origin="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/f633-audiofreehighqps/77/9A/GAqh1QQMlFyoAAlKpgQLCjzi.jpg?op_type=0" data-large="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/f633-audiofreehighqps/77/9A/GAqh1QQMlFyoAAlKpgQLCjzi.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" data-large-width="750" data-large-height="645.9700093720712" data-preview="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/f633-audiofreehighqps/77/9A/GAqh1QQMlFyoAAlKpgQLCjzi.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_small" data-preview-width="140" data-preview-height="120.58106841611996"></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><img data-key="2" src="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/17b0-audiofreehighqps/28/64/GKwRIDoMlFzEAAb0oQQLCkqV.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" alt="" data-origin="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/17b0-audiofreehighqps/28/64/GKwRIDoMlFzEAAb0oQQLCkqV.jpg?op_type=0" data-large="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/17b0-audiofreehighqps/28/64/GKwRIDoMlFzEAAb0oQQLCkqV.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" data-large-width="750" data-large-height="551.4292408622305" data-preview="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/17b0-audiofreehighqps/28/64/GKwRIDoMlFzEAAb0oQQLCkqV.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_small" data-preview-width="140" data-preview-height="102.93345829428303"><br></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><img data-key="3" src="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/4f68-audiofreehighqps/F4/ED/GKwRIasMlFzOAAlxFgQLCk5T.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" alt="" data-origin="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/4f68-audiofreehighqps/F4/ED/GKwRIasMlFzOAAlxFgQLCk5T.jpg?op_type=0" data-large="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/4f68-audiofreehighqps/F4/ED/GKwRIasMlFzOAAlxFgQLCk5T.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" data-large-width="750" data-large-height="641.4011246485474" data-preview="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/4f68-audiofreehighqps/F4/ED/GKwRIasMlFzOAAlxFgQLCk5T.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_small" data-preview-width="140" data-preview-height="119.72820993439551"><br></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><img data-key="4" src="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/14f1-audiofreehighqps/0B/08/GAqhfD0MlFzmAAF4QQQLClpT.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" alt="" data-origin="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/14f1-audiofreehighqps/0B/08/GAqhfD0MlFzmAAF4QQQLClpT.jpg?op_type=0" data-large="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/14f1-audiofreehighqps/0B/08/GAqhfD0MlFzmAAF4QQQLClpT.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" data-large-width="750" data-large-height="150" data-preview="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/14f1-audiofreehighqps/0B/08/GAqhfD0MlFzmAAF4QQQLClpT.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_small" data-preview-width="140" data-preview-height="28"><br></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>04:36</span><span>印象派是先锋的？从奥赛展说起<span><br>05:21</span>贺婧：奥赛大展是一份架构完整的<span>“</span>大餐<span>”<br>16:00</span>沈奇岚：现代艺术的前夕，人有了超越马车的速度<span><br>17:47</span>孙熳：深刻感受火车声音的艺术家们，成为了先锋者<span><br>19:07</span>学者们<span>&nbsp;pick&nbsp;</span>的惊喜之作：<span><br>——</span>马奈《埃米尔<span>·</span>左拉》<span><br>——</span>劳特累克《朱斯蒂娜<span>·</span>迪厄勒》《亨利<span>·</span>萨马里》<span><br>——</span>塞尚《黑城堡上方洞穴附近的岩石》<span><br>29:03</span>左拉说，<span>“</span>艺术家通过自己的<span>‘</span>性情<span>’</span>，把自然转译出来<span>”<br>30:52</span>为什么说马奈是现代的发明者？<span><br>46:24</span>莫奈是<span>“</span>原教旨主义印象派<span>”</span>？<span><br>52:32</span>塞尚为什么画得那么<span>“</span>苦<span>”</span>？<span><br>01:02:08</span>贺婧：从塞尚到立体主义，从梵高到表现主义，从高更到非西方中心主义<span>……</span>印象派开启了现代艺术的线索<span><br>01:06:35</span>每一次<span>“</span>绘画已死<span>”</span>，正好是绘画的意义非常重要的时候<span><br>01:17:57</span>马奈：<span>“</span>艺术家不是要让大家来看完美的作品，而是看诚实的作品<span>”</span></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span><img data-key="5" src="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/1d85-audiofreehighqps/DD/4F/GAqhfD0MlF0MAAE4rgQLCm67.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" alt="" data-origin="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/1d85-audiofreehighqps/DD/4F/GAqhfD0MlF0MAAE4rgQLCm67.jpg?op_type=0" data-large="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/1d85-audiofreehighqps/DD/4F/GAqhfD0MlF0MAAE4rgQLCm67.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" data-large-width="750" data-large-height="150" data-preview="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/1d85-audiofreehighqps/DD/4F/GAqhfD0MlF0MAAE4rgQLCm67.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_small" data-preview-width="140" data-preview-height="28"><br></span><span>-</span><span>谈话中提到的书籍</span><span><br></span><span>《</span><span>1863</span><span>，现代绘画的诞生》，</span><span>[</span><span>法</span><span>]&nbsp;</span><span>加埃坦</span><span>·</span><span>皮康著</span><span><br></span><span>《恶之花》，</span><span>[</span><span>法</span><span>]&nbsp;</span><span>夏尔</span><span>·</span><span>波德莱尔著</span><span><br></span><span>《塞尚的怀疑》，</span><span>[</span><span>法</span><span>]&nbsp;</span><span>莫里斯</span><span>·</span><span>梅洛</span><span>-</span><span>庞蒂</span><span><br></span><span>《感觉的逻辑》，</span><span>[</span><span>法</span><span>]&nbsp;</span><span>吉尔</span><span>·</span><span>德勒兹著</span><span><br></span><span>《创造进化论》，</span><span>[</span><span>法</span><span>]&nbsp;</span><span>亨利</span><span>·</span><span>柏格森</span><span><br><span><br></span></span></p><p style="font-size:16px;line-height:30px;color:#333333;font-weight:normal;" data-flag="normal"><span><span><b>谈话中提到的作品及相关海报</b></span><b>请移步微信公众号「单读」</b></span></p><span><br></span><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">｜互动方式｜<span><br></span>如果你对本期话题或本节目有任何想法或问题，请大胆在各收听平台评论区留言，或者微博吴琦<span>@</span>五七，与主播互动。</p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal">｜本期封面｜<span><br></span>摄影：吴琦<span><br><br></span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span>｜关于「螺丝在拧紧」｜<span><br></span>监制：彭倩媛<span><br></span>制作人：胡亚萍<span><br></span>编辑：菜市场<span><br></span>剪辑：椋生<span><br></span>视觉设计：李政坷 欧梦婷<span><br></span>节目运营：刘雨萱<span><br></span>原创音乐：徐逍潇<span><br></span>实习生：王泓鑫</span></p><p style="color:#333333;font-weight:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:30px;font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;hyphens:auto;text-align:justify;" data-flag="normal"><span><br></span><img data-key="6" src="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/db7a-audiofreehighqps/1F/25/GKwRIaIMlF1pAAnkfAQLCpll.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" alt="" data-origin="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/db7a-audiofreehighqps/1F/25/GKwRIaIMlF1pAAnkfAQLCpll.jpg?op_type=0" data-large="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/db7a-audiofreehighqps/1F/25/GKwRIaIMlF1pAAnkfAQLCpll.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_large" data-large-width="750" data-large-height="1314.2542652724271" data-preview="http://imagev2.xmcdn.com/storages/db7a-audiofreehighqps/1F/25/GKwRIaIMlF1pAAnkfAQLCpll.jpg!op_type=4&amp;device_type=ios&amp;upload_type=attachment&amp;name=mobile_small" data-preview-width="140" data-preview-height="245.32746285085304"></p><span><br></span>