What if getting a degree in design didn't mean writing a thesis—but instead meant building a real, revenue-generating business? In this episode, I'm joined by Carina Gardner, who is doing something truly bold: she's opened her own university. The University of Arts and Design is unlike any traditional university experience. Think of it as a trade school for creatives, where students learn practical, real-world skills—like keeping their books with QuickBooks, pricing their work, and running a profitable business. Instead of writing a thesis for a master's degree, students are required to create and run a business. Carina knows both sides of the academic world. She holds a PhD from the University of Minnesota and spent years watching talented creatives hear the same discouraging messages: "You can't earn money as a creative." "Don't study art—you'll just be a starving artist." But Carina—and many of her peers—are living proof that those statements simply aren't true. In this conversation, Carina shares how creatives can build multiple six-figure businesses by selling their art and designs—not by teaching others how to be creative, but by doing the work themselves. This episode is an inspiring look at what's possible when creativity and business come together—with intention, structure, and confidence. In this episode, we talk about: Why Carina started the University of Arts and Design How this model differs from traditional art and design degrees What creatives actually need to learn to earn real income Why running a business replaces a thesis How artists and designers can build sustainable, profitable careers If you've ever loved creating—but wondered how to make it financially sustainable—this episode will open your eyes to a new way forward. 🎧 Come meet Carina and learn all about the university she's built—and the future she believes creatives deserve.