Sarah's Kids, Materialism, Presents and the Peaceful Parenting Long View: Episode 215
<p>In this episode of the Peaceful Parenting Podcast, I bring back one of my favourite holiday episodes, which is an interview with my kids, where we talk about <strong>âpeople, not stuffâ.</strong></p><p>Every year around the holidays, I hear from parents who are worried their kids are too focused on presents, too greedy, or too materialistic â and theyâre afraid theyâre getting something wrong. I made this episode to offer a long-term perspective. </p><p>I interviewed my own kids (then 14, 17, and 20) about what holidays and gifts felt like when they were little â and what actually mattered as they got older. </p><p>Us last year at Christmas- on one of the Christmas Day walks we discussed on the podcast:</p><p>In the episode, we talk about why âwanting stuffâ is normal in childhood, how values really develop over time, and why parents can relax a lot more than they think.</p><p><strong><em>đđ Also- today is my birthday!</em></strong><em> </em></p><p>If this podcast, our posts, or our work has helped you and your family, and you want to give back to us, you can help cover the costs of our free content by supporting us on Substack for the cost of a fancy coffee a month. </p><p><strong>Or you can support us- without spending- any money by doing any or all of the following:</strong></p><p>* follow the podcast and leave a 5 star review and rating on your podcast player app</p><p>* leave a Google review of our work <a target="_blank" href="https://g.page/r/CeuWBPCoK60vEBM/review">HERE</a></p><p>* forward a newsletter or podcast post to a friend</p><p>* share a post or a podcast episode to your preferred content sharing spot :)</p><p>My gift to you is an ad free episode today, which is what you get for every episode if you support us on Substack! </p><p><strong>Thank YOU for being here!!</strong></p><p>xx Sarah (and Corey!)</p><p>Your peaceful parenting team- <a target="_blank" href="https://link.sbstck.com/redirect/4d532703-9143-4847-a50a-3138e1cba7f5?j=eyJ1IjoiZ2UxZnkifQ.XjljTdgjlg1jCSgKvXINHFuYmL3UO3h469LEV7PxF20">click here</a> for a free short consult or a coaching session</p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://link.sbstck.com/redirect/10acbeb5-1ec3-41e0-8dd6-bb9ead033604?j=eyJ1IjoiZ2UxZnkifQ.XjljTdgjlg1jCSgKvXINHFuYmL3UO3h469LEV7PxF20">Visit our website</a> for free resources, podcast, coaching, membership and more!</p><p><strong>You can listen wherever you get your podcasts, OR weâve included a fully edited transcript of our interview at the bottom of this post.</strong></p><p><strong>We talk about:</strong></p><p>* <strong>2:00</strong> â Intro: replay episode + why parents worry about âgreedy/materialisticâ kids</p><p>* <strong>3:00</strong> â Holiday schedule update + invitation to email podcast ideas/guest suggestions</p><p>* <strong>3:34</strong> â Why this episode: parentsâ concerns about consumerism + interviewing Sarahâs kids</p><p>* <strong>4:00</strong> â Important context: privilege, money, and why this worry comes from a privileged place</p><p>* <strong>5:00</strong> â Two practical ways to handle privilege: Santa gifts + donating new presents</p><p>* <strong>7:00</strong> â Meet Maxine (14): how holiday meaning shifts with age (family time, traditions, coziness)</p><p>* <strong>11:38</strong> â âUngratefulâ little kids: why itâs normal + what parents shouldnât panic about</p><p>* <strong>13:23</strong> â What helps long-term: building traditions + experiences as gifts</p><p>* <strong>16:34</strong> â Meet Asa (17): growing out of the âwanting stuffâ stage + values changing over time</p><p>* <strong>21:05</strong> â Middle school + fitting in: when brand-name wanting peaks (and why)</p><p>* <strong>22:30</strong> â What parents should do: keep kids grounded + relax</p><p>* <strong>23:01</strong> â Meet Lee (20): consumerism awareness, âpeople not stuff,â and the post-holiday letdown</p><p>* <strong>32:00</strong> â Gratitude + privilege: why kids canât fully grasp it yet, and how it comes with time</p><p>* <strong>33:31</strong> â Reassurance: if youâre worried about this, youâre probably already doing fine</p><p>* <strong>34:34</strong> â Wrap-up: âthe parenting podcast paradoxâ + holiday wishes</p><p><strong>Connect with Sarah Rosensweet:</strong></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://www.instagram.com/sarahrosensweet/">Instagram</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/peacefulparentingfreegroup">Facebook Group</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://www.youtube.com/@peacefulparentingwithsarah4194">YouTube</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://reimaginepeacefulparenting.com/">Website</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://substack.com/@sarahrosensweet">Join us on Substack</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://reimaginepeacefulparenting.com/newsletter">Newsletter</a></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://book-with-sarah-rosensweet.as.me/schedule.php">Book a short consult or coaching session call</a></p><p>xx Sarah and Corey</p><p>Your peaceful parenting team- <a target="_blank" href="https://link.sbstck.com/redirect/4d532703-9143-4847-a50a-3138e1cba7f5?j=eyJ1IjoiZ2UxZnkifQ.XjljTdgjlg1jCSgKvXINHFuYmL3UO3h469LEV7PxF20">click here</a> for a free short consult or a coaching session</p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://link.sbstck.com/redirect/10acbeb5-1ec3-41e0-8dd6-bb9ead033604?j=eyJ1IjoiZ2UxZnkifQ.XjljTdgjlg1jCSgKvXINHFuYmL3UO3h469LEV7PxF20">Visit our website</a> for free resources, podcast, coaching, membership and more!</p><p><strong>>> Please support us!!!</strong> Please consider becoming a supporter t<strong>o help support our free content</strong>, including <a target="_blank" href="https://link.sbstck.com/redirect/4491d4c0-d9d6-4a22-947f-76cb1fdf69fd?j=eyJ1IjoiZ2UxZnkifQ.XjljTdgjlg1jCSgKvXINHFuYmL3UO3h469LEV7PxF20"><em>The Peaceful Parenting Podcast</em></a><em>, </em>our free parenting support Facebook group, and our weekly parenting emails, âWeekend Reflectionsâ and âWeekend Supportâ - plus our <a target="_blank" href="https://link.sbstck.com/redirect/bed9aab5-d55c-46db-9ba2-fd90d44a0a85?j=eyJ1IjoiZ2UxZnkifQ.XjljTdgjlg1jCSgKvXINHFuYmL3UO3h469LEV7PxF20">Flourish With Your Complex Child Summit</a> (coming back in the spring for the 3rd year!) All of this free support for you takes a lot of time and energy from me and my team. <strong>If it has been helpful or meaningful for you, your support would help us to continue to provide support for free, for you and for others</strong>.</p><p>In addition to knowing you are supporting our mission to support parents and children, you get the podcast ad free and access to a monthly âask me anythingâ session.</p><p>Hereâs the polished transcript of the interview-</p><p>Todayâs episode is a replay of an episode from four years ago.</p><p>So many parents get worried, especially at this time of year, that their kids are materialistic and greedy and will never have good values. I thought you could use a little window into the future, and it would be helpful for you to see where we are in my family and what itâs like as kids get older.</p><p>So I interviewed my kids about their experiences growing up with presents and holidays and stuff. So if your kid has a case of the greedy, youâll see, if you listen to my kids, that it wonât last forever. At the time of the interviews, they were 14, 17, and 20. Today theyâre 18, 21, and 24. Things really do shift as your kids get older.</p><p>My older two kids live on their ownâand they have for a few yearsâand so far, all theyâve said they want for Christmas is socks. Things really do change.</p><p>If this holiday support episode is helpful and you arenât on my email list, make sure you check out the other posts that we have on Substack. As I mentioned, just search up Substack and Sarah Rosensweet and youâll find us.</p><p>My team and I are going to be taking a bit of time off for the holidays. We will be back in the new year with new episodes of this podcast. And if you have any ideas for the podcast, or any guests that youâd like to have on, or you would like to be coached on the podcast, shoot me an email:
[email protected].</p><p>Iâd love to hear from you about any ideas you have for the podcastâwhat youâd like to have coming up in the new year.</p><p>Here we go back to the podcast. Enjoy this replay, whether itâs your first time hearing it or if youâve heard it before.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Todayâs episode is a response to some parentsâ questions and concerns that I received when I did a call-out asking people what they were concerned about over the holidays. And some parents were really feeling stressed about materialism and consumerism of the holidays, and their kids getting too many presents or wanting too much stuff.</p><p>So I interviewed my kids about itâwhat their perspective was, having gone through the âI want more presentsâ stage, and now theyâre teenagers. Theyâre 14, 17, and one of themâs not a teenager anymoreâheâs 20. So I interviewed them because theyâve been through it, and Iâve been through it with them.</p><p>But before we dive into the interviews, I just want to acknowledge that this is a very privileged positionâthat we have the privilege of being able to be concerned that our kids have too much stuff, or theyâre getting too many presents, or that theyâre worried too much about getting things and being able to buy things.</p><p>For a number of years when our kids were little, my husband was a student and I was a stay-at-home mom, and we really didnât have any money. We really had to watch every penny. But we still had privilege because we got government assistanceâchild tax benefit. We live in Canada where we have socialized medicine, so we didnât need to worry about health insurance.</p><p>And we also had the family safety net privilege, which was that we knew if we ever were really in dire straits, our parents would help us out.</p><p>And our kids had privilege even though we didnât have money in those years, because they got a lot of presents from their grandparents. I think we mention that in the interviews that are coming up.</p><p>So my husband and Iâwe didnât have much money, but we didnât need to worry about buying them gifts because they had five sets of grandparents. Hello, divorce and remarriage.</p><p>So I just really wanted to acknowledge that I am speaking from a place of privilege, my children are speaking from a place of privilege, and those parents who reached out to me concerned about too many presents and materialism and âWhat are we gonna do when our kids just want so much stuff?ââtheyâre also speaking from a place of privilege.</p><p>And many, many, many parents donât have that. They donât have enough money to buy presents for their kids. And those kids might be in school with kids who get tons of presents at Christmas.</p><p>So two small things that we can doâand I know these are really just a drop in the bucketâbut while Iâm here, Iâm just going to make two suggestions for all of us listening who are coming from a place of privilege.</p><p>One is that we donât get big presents from Santa. If we do celebrate Christmas and we do the Santa tradition, we donât give our children big presents from Santa. Thatâs one thing, because what about kids who are getting hardly anything, if anything at all, from Santa?</p><p>Another is that we make donations. Those of us who have privilegeâwe either make donations to food banks, or we make donations by buying new presents. Itâs great to donate things that your kids no longer play with. But what Iâm asking here is that we donate new presents to organizations that will then distribute them to kids who are less financially privileged.</p><p>I know thatâs not a ton, and I always feel kind of nervous and vulnerable when I talk about things like this. Iâm still learning and Iâm not perfect. However, I just wanted to address the issue of privilegeâfinancial privilegeâbefore we dive in.</p><p>So let me introduce you to my kids. If you didnât hear them in episode one of the podcast, when they were talking about what it was like to be raised by peaceful parenting, you might wanna go back and give that a listen. But let me introduce you to Maxine, whoâs 14; Asa, whoâs 17; and Lee, whoâs 20.</p><p>Youâre gonna hear each of their perspectives on stuff and presents and materialism and consumerism, and what they think parents should do to raise kids who have great values.</p><p>Okay, letâs dive in. Hi, Maxine. Hello. Welcome to the podcast.</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Hi.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Can you introduce yourself?</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Iâm Maxine, and Iâm your child.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> How old are you? I know how old you are, but other people donât.</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Iâm 14.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> All right. So do you remember when you were little, what was the best thing about birthdaysâChristmas, holidays?</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Oh⌠presents, I guess.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> I think thatâs whatâwell, Iâ</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> I probably shouldnât say that, because I know thatâs, like, what the whole podcasting is about.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> No, itâs okay. Thatâs what Iâm trying to normalize. The fact that for little kids, itâs all about presents, right?</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Yeah.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> So do you think youâre still in that phase at 14âthat itâs mostly about the presents?</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Well, not really. I like spending time with you guysâespecially since Lee moved out.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> So youâre looking forward to having your brother come home at Christmas. What else is meaningful to you about the Christmas holiday?</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Well, literally you and Dad donât have to work that much when itâsâso we get to spend, like, the whole day together. And we always have a nice breakfast, and sometimes we get to help you with that and stuff like that.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> One of my favorite things the past couple of years that weâve been doing is the family walk on Christmas.</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Yeah. Itâs fun. And we always take Emmy, and sheâs always so happy to be with all of us.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Yeah, because she never gets all five of us to take her for a walk at once.</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> OhâEmmy. Emmyâs our dog, by the way, if you donât know that.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> So do you still like the presents?</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Yeah, I still like presents. But, like, who doesnât like presents? Even you and Dad like presents.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Thatâs true. But the time with familyâyouâre starting to appreciate that more as youâre getting older. Do you ever remember getting a present you didnât like when you were a kid?</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> No, but I remember being disappointed that I didnât get presents that I wanted.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Oh yeah? Tell me about that.</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> When I thought Santa was real, I would make lists and I wouldnât get all the stuff, and I would be kind of sad.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Yeah. And how do you think that affected you as a person?</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> I donât think it really mattered. I think I was just a little kid who wanted to have all the presents that I wanted.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Yeah. Do you think thatâs pretty normal?</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Yeah.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Do you think parents should worry about that?</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> No. I think you shouldnât worry. But I think itâs weird if your kids arenât excited about presents and donât want lots and lots of presents, because thatâs a normal thing for kids to want.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> And so what do you think happens as you get older, and now youâre like, âYeah, I still like presents, but thatâs not the most important thing.â</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> I think when youâre little, you just donât understand what the holidaysâand what that is all about. But when you get older, you realize that itâs more about just being able to spend time with people and stuff.</p><p>And itâs also nice to give people presents instead of just always getting presents.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> What have been your favorite presents that youâve given?</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> I donât knowâlike when I give my brothers records or stuff like that, and it just seems to make them happy, then it makes me feel good.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Do you remember making presents?</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Yeah. I made presentsâlike this year or last year. I made those little tree decorations for my brothers and you and my dad and all the grandparents and stuff.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Thatâs right. Those were nice.</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Those little candy cane things.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Yeah, those were sweet.</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Also, I like Christmas because itâs all nice and cozy. And justâlike on Christmas or just any holidays that we do as a familyâbut especially Christmas, when weâre all sitting around and listening to music and itâs all cozy in our house and stuff, and then we can look outside and stuff like that.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> I love that too. I love decorating the tree and then sitting and looking at it afterwards, having hot chocolate.</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Yeah.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> You know, that was a tradition that I did growing up too.</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Cool. Also sometimes on Christmasâor mostly Christmas or New Yearâsâwhen our grandparents call to just say âHappy New Yearâ or âMerry Christmas,â thatâs nice. And you get to talk to them.</p><p>Usually I call your mom, and I always show her all my presents and stuff.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> You know, Nana listens to the podcast. Do you want to say hi to her?</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Hi Nana.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> One of the other things that parents were worried aboutâand why Iâm making this podcastâis that sometimes little kids seem really ungrateful. Like they get a whole giant pile of presents and then theyâre like, âI wanted the blah blah blah,â or âI didnât get that,â or âWhy did he get more?â</p><p>What do you think those parents need to hear when they have little kids? What do they need to hear from an older kid?</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Like I said before, when I would not get presents that I wanted, but I would still get other presentsâI would be sad or unhappy about it, that I didnât get the other presents that I wanted. But after, I would realize how fun the presents I actually got were.</p><p>And honestly, if you have a four-year-old and theyâre upset about not getting something, then theyâre literally four. So you canât really think that theyâre ungrateful, because they donât even know what that word means. They probably donât even know how to say that word.</p><p>So you canât really worry about them being ungrateful, because they donât even know what that is.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Right. And they donât have anything to compare it to, right?</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Yeah, because theyâre literally four.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> So if parents are really worried about thatâif they think their kids think that toys are the most important thingâwhat would you say to those parents?</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Well, kids are just kids. Iâm still a kid, but I know that presents arenât the only thing thatâs good about holidays and stuff. But Iâm still learning. And if your kid is younger than me, then chances are theyâll know even less about that.</p><p>So honestly, kids are just kids, and they just think presents are so cool and exciting that they donât know thereâs more to it than presents.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Right. Do you think thereâs anything parents could or should do to teach their kids that there are things more important than presents?</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Well, you could do traditions, like what we doâlike where you go on a walk, or you decorate your tree as a family or something. Or if you celebrate Hanukkah, doing little traditions for that and stuff. So when theyâre older, theyâll see, âOh, when we did all those things, those were nice traditions that my parents did.â</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Can you think of any other traditions that were important to you?</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Decorating cookies.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> I was thinking about that too. Thatâs a lot of fun. Iâm really looking forward to doing that this year.</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> And I already promised one of my teachers, Ms. Miller, that I was going to give her cookies. So we have to do it.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> We absolutely will, because she loves sugar.</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Yeah, sheâs sugar.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> She does. Yeah.</p><p>I think youâve always liked giving presents too. Is there anything else you think parents should know if theyâre worried about their kids thinking that stuff is more important than people?</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Honestly, just what I said before: kids are just kids, and they donât know anything other than presents. So donât think itâs a big deal, because eventually theyâll realize more things about holidays, like I did.</p><p>But if your kidâs, like, six and theyâre so excited about the presents and thatâs all they can talk about, then honestly thatâs a normal kid behavior.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Right. And not worry about it.</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Well, not, like, normal, but a lot of kids are like that.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Yeah. And I think if we can be excited for them too, right?</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Yeah. If you can show them that itâs so great that theyâre excited about it, and it can be like, âIâm excited too,â then theyâll see itâs not something bad. But if you tell them, âNo, you shouldnât be this excited about presents. Thatâs not allowedâŚâ</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Thatâs right.</p><p>Hey, do you rememberâthis is one thing I forgot to ask your brothers aboutâdo you remember times when youâve gotten an experience instead of a thing you can hold in your hands for a present?</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> People have given me a ticket to go do something with me or something. Just for fun.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> I think Mimi took you to a show once.</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Yeah.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> And Uncle Les used to do sleepovers and movie night.</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Yeah.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Do you think thatâs a good idea? Do you think kids like that?</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Yeah. I likedâhuh? But Iâm not a normal kid.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Youâre not a normal kid? Why arenât you a normal kid?</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Because Iâm not. I donât know how to explain it.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> I think youâre a pretty normal kid.</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> No, Iâm extraordinary.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Youâre also hilarious.</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Thanks, darling.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> You are welcome. Love you. You look funny with those big headphones on your head.</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Yeah, Iâm sure.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> I do love you, kid.</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> Oh, I love you.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Hello. Okay. Okay, letâs get started. Can you introduce yourself?</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> My nameâs Asa. Iâm your son. Iâm 17.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Thanks for coming on the podcast.</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> Yeah, no problem.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> So when you were little, you and your older brother Lee used to spend hours looking at the Lego catalog and circling all the things that you wanted.</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> Uh-huh.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Do you remember that?</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> Yeah.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> And I remember Dad used to really worry about that. He used to worry that you guysâyour values were out of place, and you were gonna be super greedy kids and not care about the right things.</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> Right.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> He was right?</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> Yeah.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Are you super greedy?</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> No.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Now, I remember one year when you were around 11 and I said, âThe grandparents are starting to ask what you want for Christmas,â because they wanted to get you something. And you stopped and you thought, and you said, âMom, I think I have a pretty good life. I canât think of anything I want.â</p><p>Do you remember that?</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> Yeah.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> So how did you go from the five-year-old who wanted everything in the Lego catalog toâ</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> I think I kind of just grew out of it, I guess, is the best way to say it. I donât know. My brain chemistry changed.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Do you think thatâs typical of 17-year-olds? Do you feel like most kids your age donât want that much stuff?</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> Yeah. The thing is, I donât really play with toys anymore. So when I was little, you can never have too many toys. You just get more and more and more, and theyâre all good.</p><p>But now, thinking about it, the only thing Iâm missing in my daily life is a backpack big enough to put all my stuff in. So thatâs, like, the only thing I want. When I think about itâwhat would make my life betterâthe only thing I can think of is a bigger backpack.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> A bigger backpack. Okay.</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> Bigger backpack.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> I think Santa has gotten wind of that, so you donât have too long to wait.</p><p>I feel like youâre sort of unusual for kids your age in terms of not being into brand-name stuff. Do you think thatâs true?</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> Yeah. I would say thatâs true.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Why do you think that is?</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> When you get older, you value different things. Your values change. You donât really care so much about accumulating plastic chachkes, and youâre more focused on just having a good time.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> I know you donât want little toys from the dollar store or Lego kits anymore, but why donât you want brand-name sneakers? You havenât even gotten sneakers in, like, two years, right?</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> Iâve evolved past that.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Okay, but what is it? Iâm trying to say: I think youâre unusual for someone 17, in grade 12, whoâs not like, âOh, I need these sneakers and that expensive thing and the latest iPhone.â</p><p>I want to hear anything you think would be helpful for parents who want to make sure their kids donât grow up greedy and materialistic.</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> They wonât. They wonât. Or maybe they will, but it doesnât reallyâsome people are like that and some people arenât.</p><p>Everybody when theyâre little wants Lego and wants to look in the Lego catalog. Whatever you do then is not gonna shape that. Maybe your kid will grow up and be greedy, but you telling them that they shouldnât look at the Lego catalog isnât gonna change that.</p><p>Itâs not guaranteed everybodyâs gonna grow out of it. Whatever you try and do isnât gonna change that. Itâs already kind of preset. Let the kids do whatever they want, and then maybe theyâll be greedy, maybe they wonât. But it wonât really have any effect on it.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> So youâre saying itâs other thingsânot what they want when theyâre littleâthat decide how they turn out.</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> Yeah.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> I think itâs pretty normal for little kids to want lots of stuff. Itâs hardwired, evolutionarily, for them to want stuffâbecause if they were just quiet and meek in a corner, everyone would forget about them.</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> Yeah.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Do you remember when you started to feel grateful for your life?</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> I am grateful now, and I probably wasnât when I was three. So somewhere along the lineâmaybe somewhere between three and 17âmaybe five years ago. I donât know. Itâs sort of a gradual thing.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Yeah, itâs hard to pinpoint.</p><p>You said that parents telling their kids not to want stuff isnât going to make a difference. But do you think you internalized what was important in our family, and because Dad and I arenât really into brand names and buying stuff, thatâs how you developed too?</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> Yeah. I would say I cared about the stuff most when I was in grade six and seven, and I felt really weird telling you guys that I wanted shirts with company logos on them and stuff. It just felt out of place in our family.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Why do you think it was grade six and seven that you wanted the most brand-name stuff?</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> Because brain development-wise, thatâs when you want to fit in the most.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> That makes sense. And at a certain point, you justâŚ</p><p>One of the things I admire about you is that you donât care what other people thinkâin a good way. You have your own idea of what you like and whatâs cool. But when you were little, what was the most important or meaningful thing about Christmas or birthdays?</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> I guess the anticipation. The anticipation of all of the presents and celebration and whatnot. When you actually get there, itâs like whatever, but it gives you something to look forward to leading up to it. That was probably the most important thing.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> The excitement of the possibilities of what you might get and do.</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> Yeah.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> What about now? Has anything changed?</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> Well, I used to have birthday parties when I was a little kid. I donât really do that anymore, so birthdays definitely donât feel as significant.</p><p>Christmas is kind of the same mold, but again, Iâm not so much into, like, âWhich Lego am I gonna get this year?â So I donât know. I guess now I value the food and the family and everything else. So Christmas, beyond the presents.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Nice. Well, thanks, Ace. Was there anything you think parents should know about this topic?</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> Make sure your kids are staying somewhat grounded to reality, but just relax too, because theyâre little kids.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Thanks, Ace. Bye.</p><p><strong>Asa:</strong> No problem. Bye. Love you.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Love you too.</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Hello.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Hi, Lee. Welcome to the podcast.</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Thank you for having me.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Can you introduce yourself?</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Hi, Iâm Lee, your oldest son.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> How old are you now?</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> 20.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> 20 andâ</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> A half.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> 20 and a half. We missed your half-birthday this year.</p><p>And for anyone listening who doesnât celebrate Christmas, I think this applies to birthdays or any other holidays where kids get presents. Looking back on your childhood, do you remember really wanting to get presents and lobbying to get presents when you were little?</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Yeah, definitely. Next question.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> I asked your brother thisâdo you remember looking at the Lego catalog, the two of you pouring over it and circling everything you wanted?</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Oh yeah, for sure. I think you and Dad tried to moderate that. I remember you talking to us about consumerism. I think I understood that stuff, but I still just wanted presents. I think thatâs how it is for most kids.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> For sure. It really stressed Dad out. He was worried about all the wanting, like a lot of the parents who wrote with concerns about this.</p><p>But youâre a person now at 20 who I would say is pretty non-materialistic. When did you become aware of consumerism and materialism?</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> I think I was aware as long as I can remember. Definitely you taught me early, but I donât think it sank in until I was a young teenager.</p><p>When was the first time I was like, âOh, you donât need to get me any presentsâ? I donât know. By the way, you always still do, but Iâm pretty sure I always tell you now that you donât need to.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Yeah. We get you presents because we want to get you presents, not because we feel like we have to.</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> But when I was a kid, I wasnât like, âOh, you donât have to get me any presents.â I wanted presents very much.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> For sure. Do you ever rememberâ</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> I think it was enough times⌠Do you talk to your parents about the post-holiday letdown? We havenât talked about that yet, but experiencing that enough made me feel like, âOkay, maybe presents are not the name of the game.â</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Say more about the post-holiday letdown.</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Somewhere around 3:00 p.m. on Christmas, youâd be like, âWell, that was that. Back to my comfortable life, I guess.â But normal. Youâd stop feeling excited and youâd feel like, âWas I really that excited?â Because once the suspense is goneâwho said that? The anticipation is always better than the actual thing. Some philosopher said that.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Thatâs so funny because thatâs what your brother said. When I asked what he remembered most, he said: the anticipation.</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Yeah, for sure.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> So what would you say to parents who are worried their kids always want more stuff? And even the post-holiday letdown can look like crying about not having more presents at three oâclock.</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> I would say itâs okay. The kids are victims of the mass media, but youâre probably already doing your best to counteract that, and just have faith. If youâre generally raising a conscientious kid, theyâll eventually probably come around.</p><p>How many adults do you know who are obsessed with presents?</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Well⌠some are. Some people are very materialistic. But generally people grow out of it, I think.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> There are tons of people who get the new iPhone with every update, or who want the newest, fanciest thing and brand-name stuff.</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Okay. I would say then: you guys really hammered it at home with me. And thatâs probably why I think what I do nowââPeople, not stuff,â the old mantra.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> People, not stuff. That really was a mantra in your childhood, wasnât it?</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Yes, probably.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> And for anyone listening, donât get me wrongâyou guys got a lot of presents for Christmas.</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Oh yeah.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Not from us necessarily, because we didnât have much money when you were growing up. Just a lot of grandparents. You guys have five sets of grandparentsâten grandparentsâand then aunties and uncles and big family.</p><p>I wouldnât say you were spoiled. Do you think you were spoiled?</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> I donât know. Maybe. I think itâs less about having things and more about having a bad attitude than anything else.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Yeah. I think spoiled is when parents canât say no and they just give everything. You may have had grandparents who couldnât say no and gave you everything.</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Yeah, that makes sense.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Looking back, what was really meaningful for you about Christmas or your birthday?</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> I couldnât tell you what was really meaningfulâjust the thing itself. Youâre very conditioned to be excited for those things when youâre young. Santa and presents.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> So what about now? What do you like about the holidays?</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> I donât want to say I dislike them. I donât ever decorate, and I play Christmas songs when I get paid too.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> You play them for free at our house.</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Yeah. On your request. Thatâs true.</p><p>I donât know. Iâm pretty agnostic about it. I donât mind it. I mind it in November when people get excited about it, but when itâs actually the season, itâs cool.</p><p>Same with my birthday. Itâd be cool to do something, but it always ends up being pretty low-key. I donât think thatâs positive or negativeâit varies from person to person.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Is there anything youâre excited about with Christmas coming?</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> I guess it still feels niceâlike the intentional family time. And the new Lego andâ</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Sorry, spoiler: youâre not getting any Lego this year.</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Okay. Family time, yeah. Seeing extended family. I donât know if weâre going to this year. I think Christmas is cool.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Do you remember making presents for your siblings when you were growing up?</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> I remember making Asa the piggy bank.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Do you remember the sock monkeys you made them?</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Oh, vaguely.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Those were a lot of work.</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Yeah, I forgot about that. I donât remember if they liked them.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> They did. We still have them.</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Yeah.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Changing gears a bitâfrom holidays to consumerism in generalâdo you remember when you came home from Montessori and said you wanted some companyâ</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Yeah, I know what youâre about to say. Company shirts?</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Yeah.</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Okay.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Do you remember why you wanted company shirts?</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Because it was cool.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> We thought you meant shirts that said GAP on them or something. But when Dad took you shopping at a thrift storeâ</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> I just wanted shirts with pictures on them.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Do you remember the trip?</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Yeah. I remember getting a Superman button-up. I donât remember the others.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> I think you got shirts that said T-Rex.</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> I couldnât read, so I didnât know what a company versus just a picture was.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> What do you think that did for you?</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Made me cool. I have more friends. Iâm joking.</p><p>I donât know. I remember being happy to have a cool wardrobe. If you want to talk consumerism, I think I still like getting cool clothes. A lot of people do. Although I donât go shopping that much.</p><p>I do tend to buy secondhand clothes, and thatâs just a style question. I think that fateful shopping tripâwe went to a Goodwill or something, right?</p><p>I remember going there as a child. And then I had one or two years in the beginning of high school where I wanted to get all my clothes from H&M, and then I just went back to Value Village after that.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Yeah, I remember that. Rebellious years of going to the mall.</p><p>So another thing parents worry about is that their kids arenât appreciative or grateful for everything they have in their life. And I personally thinkâof course theyâre not.</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Yeah. Of course theyâre not. Theyâre little dummies.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> No. I donât think theyâre little dummies. I think they just donât have anything to compare it to.</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Yeah, for sure. Thatâll come with time.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Do you remember starting to feel appreciative and grateful for what you have?</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Do I remember becoming conscious of it? It always was something you guys talked about. It slowly, very gradually became less abstract as I got more world experience.</p><p>I donât totally remember what you said, but the message was: âYou are fortunate.â</p><p>But I never thought, âIâm not grateful.â When youâre a kid, you just donât understand much. How could you expect them to understand something as nuanced as gratitude? Or privilege.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Yeah, privilege.</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Thatâs what Iâm talking about. It comes with time. You still have to make an effort to show them that, because I definitely know older people who donât really get that. And if you donât, youâre one of them.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> So it would be fair to say that the parents who are concerned about wanting their kids to be appreciative of their privilege, wanting their kids to be grateful, and not too consumeristâ</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Youâre probably already doing fine. Exactly. Talk to them about it, and within a decade theyâll get it. And within a decade, theyâll become the preachy ones and youâll get annoyed.</p><p>Theyâll start lecturing you about capitalism, and youâll be like, âGosh darn it, what have I done?â</p><p><strong>Maxine:</strong> I think thatâs happened to us a few times.</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> All I was trying to sayâI wasnât trying to say donât get your kids presents. I think Iâve been pretty clear. I never minded when you guys talked about privilege and stuff when I was a kid. Even if I did mind it, that would be more reason to reinforce those points.</p><p>I think the golden rule of parenting podcasts is: if youâre concerned about this stuff, youâre already probably doing pretty well. And if you donât think about it, then your kid is the one that needs help.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Yeah. In any case, those are not the people who are probably listening to this.</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Thatâs the parenting podcast paradox.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Okay, letâs close by sayingâ</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> You better leave that in.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Iâll leave it in: âParenting podcast paradox.â The Peaceful Parenting Podcast paradoxâand add another P in there.</p><p>Okay. Well, thanks, Lee, for coming on the podcast.</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Thanks for having me.</p><p><strong>Sarah:</strong> Love you.</p><p><strong>Lee:</strong> Happy holidays to all your listeners.</p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. 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