<p>This is the longer of two episodes featuring author, pastoral counselor, and Dharma Leader Dr. Pamela Ayo Yetunde. </p><p>In this full 90-minute interview, you’ll hear about Ayo’s experiences being a part of the school integration initiative in the 60s and 70s and being bussed to a mostly White school. You’ll hear about her transformative experience with Sister Soulah, her work as an asylum officer, and a lot more.In the <a target="_blank" href="https://open.substack.com/pub/radicalsoul/p/is-it-a-small-j-or-big-j-justice?r=13el7b&#38;utm_campaign=post&#38;utm_medium=web">30-minute version</a>, I pulled together moments from our interview that highlight Ayo’s insights about justice with a small j — which is justice on a personal level — versus justice with a Large J — which is systemic change — and how she makes sometimes daily decisions about which to focus on.</p><p>About Dr. Pamela Ayo Yetunde</p><p>Dr. Yetunde, JD, MA, ThD, is pastoral counselor, spiritual director, chaplain, and Community Dharma Leader in the Insight Meditation Community. She is coeditor of the Nautilus Gold Award-winning <a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/107881/9781611808650">Black and Buddhist: What Buddhism Can Teach Us About Race, Resilience, Transformation, and Freedom</a>; and the author of <a target="_blank" href="https://www.amazon.com/Songbird-Birdsong-Story-Transform-Book-ebook/dp/B0CW3F5KYY/">Songbird Birdsong: The Story</a>, <a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/107881/9781645470922">Casting Indra’s Net: Fostering Spiritual Kinship and Community</a>, <a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/107881/9783319944531">Object Relations, Buddhism, and Relationality in Womanist Practical Theology</a>, and the Frederick J. Streng Award-winning <a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/107881/9783030425593">Buddhist-Christian Dialogue, U.S. Law, and Womanist Theology for Transgender Spiritual Care</a>. Ayo is the cofounder of <a target="_blank" href="https://www.centeroftheheart.org">Center of the Heart</a>, and <a target="_blank" href="https://www.buddhistjustice.com">Buddhist Justice Reporter</a>. Her upcoming book <a target="_blank" href="https://bookshop.org/a/107881/9798889831600">Dearly Beloved: Prince, Spirituality, and This Thing Called Life</a> will be published in April 2025. Learn more at <a target="_blank" href="https://www.pamelaayoyetunde.com">pamelaayoyetunde.com</a>.</p><p><em>This is part of a </em><a target="_blank" href="https://radicalsoul.substack.com/t/queer-elders-and-ancestors"><em>series honoring queer elders and ancestors</em></a><em>. If a queer ancestor or elder has made a difference in your life, </em><a target="_blank" href="https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSf0_p21UTSa6b02pFo8rXzfTnyeG3pUrRx6O5vxRDFuMTmPIg/viewform?usp=sf_link"><em>nominate them to be featured on Radical Soul</em></a><em>. For other radical souls that aren’t queer or not quite an elder: </em><a target="_blank" href="https://forms.gle/4aKzsUjC2orvUr488"><em>nominate them here.</em></a></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://radicalsoul.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">radicalsoul.substack.com</a>