<p>In this episode, I sit down with Daniel A. Wagner to explore one of the most urgent global challenges in education: the gap between schooling and actual learning. Around the world, enrollment rates have improved dramatically, yet millions of children leave school without basic literacy skills. Dan explains how international development efforts have historically focused on access, but access alone does not guarantee meaningful learning.</p><p>We discuss the concept of “learning poverty,” the challenges of measuring literacy across diverse linguistic and cultural contexts, and the limits of global assessment systems. Dan draws on decades of research across countries to show how policy initiatives often oversimplify complex educational realities. What counts as literacy varies across societies, and measurement tools can unintentionally distort priorities.</p><p>What stayed with me most is the distinction between years spent in school and actual cognitive development. If education is to fulfill its promise, we must shift from counting seats filled to understanding learning gained. This conversation pushes us to rethink how we define success in global education systems.</p><p><br></p><p><strong>Chapters:</strong></p><p><strong>00:00 – Introduction</strong></p><p><strong>02:15 – Entering Global Education and Literacy Research</strong></p><p><strong>07:30 – The Difference Between Schooling and Learning</strong></p><p><strong>13:40 – The Global Literacy Landscape</strong></p><p><strong>19:55 – What “Learning Poverty” Really Means</strong></p><p><strong>26:10 – Measuring Literacy Across Languages and Cultures</strong></p><p><strong>32:45 – The Limits of International Assessments</strong></p><p><strong>39:20 – Policy, Data, and Development Agendas</strong></p><p><strong>45:30 – Technology and Innovation in Global Education</strong></p><p><strong>51:10 – Rethinking What Counts as Success</strong></p><p><strong>56:30 – The Future of Learning and Literacy</strong></p><p><strong>59:10 – Closing Reflections</strong></p><p></p>