<p><strong>What does your CFO actually want to hear from you?</strong></p><p>In this episode of <em>That’s What I Call Marketing</em>, Conor Byrne sits down with <strong>Michael Kaminsky</strong> former analytics leader at <strong>Harry’s</strong> and Founder &amp; CEO of <strong>Recast</strong> to unpack the real tension between marketing and finance. After Michael’s <strong>Harvard Business Review</strong> article on the CMO–CFO relationship circulated widely (and resonated strongly with CFOs and CMOs), this conversation goes deep on:</p><ul><li>Why marketing forecasts keep missing</li><li>Why finance doesn’t trust marketing numbers</li><li>How to talk about ROI and risk credibly</li><li>The problem with last-click attribution</li><li>How to structure experiments properly</li><li>What “expected value” really means for marketers</li><li>Why brand investment must be framed as capital allocation</li></ul><p>If you’re a CMO, Marketing Director, Head of Performance or brand leader trying to build a stronger relationship with your CFO — this episode is essential.</p><h3>⏱️ Chapters</h3><p> 01:02 – Michael’s time at Harry’s: analytics, growth &amp; experimentation</p><p> 05:00 – The early days of podcast advertising &amp; growth bets</p><p> 06:15 – False precision in marketing measurement</p><p> 07:23 – Brand tracking, survey data &amp; real signal</p><p> 08:42 – The Harvard Business Review article</p><p> 09:07 – Why CMOs and CFOs feel tension</p><p> 10:13 – Speaking the language of finance</p><p> 14:21 – Discounted cash flow &amp; thinking in timelines</p><p> 15:00 – The credibility killer: marketing marketing</p><p> 15:32 – Why being willing to be wrong builds trust</p><p> 18:20 – Talking about risk &amp; expected value</p><p> 22:18 – Incrementality &amp; structured experimentation</p><p> 25:05 – Recast: forecasting &amp; bridging marketing and finance</p><p> 28:28 – The forecasting trap: last-touch attribution</p><p> 30:19 – Compounding learning &amp; agency transparency</p><p> 32:00 – Final reflections: marketing as growth co-pilot</p><p><br></p><h3>🔎 Topics Covered</h3><ul><li>CMO CFO relationship</li><li>Marketing finance alignment</li><li>Marketing ROI</li><li>Forecasting marketing investment</li><li>Incrementality in marketing</li><li>Last click attribution problems</li><li>Media mix modelling (MMM)</li><li>Brand investment vs short-term performance</li><li>Capital allocation in marketing</li><li>Building trust with finance</li></ul><p><br></p><p>If you found this valuable:</p><p>✔️ Share it with a fellow marketer</p><p> ✔️ Subscribe for more conversations with leading marketing thinkers</p><p> ✔️ Leave a review — it helps the show reach more senior marketers</p><br><p>Check out Recast here https://getrecast.com/</p><hr><p style='color:grey; font-size:0.75em;'> Hosted on Acast. See <a style='color:grey;' target='_blank' rel='noopener noreferrer' href='https://acast.com/privacy'>acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>