The other week, I chatted with former software consultant turned CRM SaaS owner, Reuben Swartz about how to do sales in a way that doesn't feel like selling and instead sets up your relationships for success.In this episode, we chat about things like:Why traditional sales processes don't workHow he helps people win clients without being sales-yHow having a clear target market helps your sales successReframing "sales" as "educating" and "networking" as "connecting"Why having a strong marketing engine allows you to be better at salesA mental model for generating more referralsShould you give gifts and thank-you notes to people who refer business to you?Easy ways to maintain contact with people in your networkAnd a lot more!If selling isn't your jam—or even if it is—you'll get a ton of value out of this episode. The mindsets and mental models he shares make it easy to navigate sales conversations without getting mired in tactical "steps" which can often confuse you and put a barrier between you and your prospects.Resources mentioned:The Go-Giver by Bob BergAlchemy by Rory Sutherland Mimiran: The fun, antiCRMReuben on LinkedInThanks for listening, and if you enjoy the show, please share it with a friend!—kw