Deesha and Dawnie talk with Destiny O. Birdsong, author of the poetry collection Negotiations and the novel Nobody’s Magic. Last year, Birdsong published a short story, “The Jump,” only to have it pulled from publication less than a day later over disagreements with the editors. The story eventually found a new home at Roxane Gay’s newsletter, The Audacity.

Birdsong talks about navigating censorship and what happens when writers and editors don’t see eye to eye, and they highlight the necessity of respect and support from editors and keeping the integrity of your work when finding a home for it. Birdsong also talks about the intersections of religion and queerness, the representation of queer sex and sex work in literature, and how she follows instinct when approaching her work.

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Reading List: Authors, Stories, and Books Mentioned

• Negotiations: Poems (Destiny O. Birdsong)
• Nobody’s Magic (Destiny O. Birdsong)
• “The Jump” (Destiny O. Birdsong, The Audacity 2024)
• Rick Hillis
• Roxane Gay
• Toi Derricotte
• “The Woman Shaping a Generation of Black Thought” (J Wortham,The New York Times, 2023)

Watch List:

• Cross
• 48 Hours
• Insecure

More from Deesha and Dawnie:

• The Secret Lives of Church Ladies (Deesha Philyaw)
• The Final Revival of Opal & Nev (Dawnie Walton)

Produced by Ursa Story Company 

Hosted by Deesha Philyaw & Dawnie Walton

Executive Producers: Dawnie Walton, Deesha Philyaw, and Mark Armstrong

Associate Producer: Marina Leigh

Episode Editor: Kelly Araja

About the Author

Destiny O. Birdsong is the author of the poetry collection Negotiations (Tin House Books, 2020) and the triptych novel Nobody’s Magic (Grand Central, 2022), which was longlisted for the Center for Fiction’s First Novel Prize, was a finalist for the Ernest J. Gaines Award for Literary Excellence, and won the 2022 Willie Morris Award for Southern Fiction. She has served as a Writer-in-Residence for the Hurston/Wright Foundation and the University of Tennessee and is a contributing editor of Poets & Writers magazine. She is currently at work on a second novel and a collection of short stories.

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