Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. <a href="https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Make sure you subscribe to the companion Substack</a>: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome<br /><br />Today’s guest is Brooke Warner, publisher of <a href="https://shewritespress.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">She Writes Press</a>, author of <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9781631526701" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"><i>Write On, Sisters!</i></a>, renowned former editor at Seal Press, and a 25-year publishing industry veteran. She talks candidly about how the industry has evolved, why traditional publishing is no longer the only path, and what it really takes to build a writing career today.<br /><br />In this episode, Brooke breaks down the current publishing landscape across every lane: traditional, hybrid, and self-publishing—and why more authors are thinking beyond the Big Five. She shares how hybrid publishing emerged as a “third way,” its roots in co-publishing, and why entrepreneurial authors actually prefer it. We also get into the catch-22 of platform building and what actually sells books now, from the rise of podcasts, Substack, and TikTok to the enduring power of email lists (and why social media doesn’t convert the way you think it does).<br /><br />Brooke also dishes on PR, Amazon’s outsized—and often unfair—influence, and the behind-the-scenes realities of book distribution. Plus, we talk about AI’s growing presence in manuscript submissions, how publishers can spot it, and what it means for the future of writing.<br /><br />Subscribe to Brooke's Substack <a href="https://brookewarner.substack.com/welcome" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Writerly Things</a>. Follow her on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/brooke_warner/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Instagram</a> @brooke_warner, and buy your copy of <i>Write On, Sisters! </i>on <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9781631526701" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Bookshop.org</a>, or wherever books are sold!<br /><br /><b>Get your copy of Courtney's debut memoir <i>Girl Gone Wild</i> from <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9781949487541" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠</a> or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠<a href="https://amzn.to/3M7EYR5" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Amazon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠</a>.</b><br /><b></b><br /><b>Preorder 10 copies of <i>Girl Gone Wild</i> to join The Confessional—a live memoir writing residency during the launch of Girl Gone Wild. For more details, visit <a href="https://www.courtneykocak.com/teaching" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">⁠⁠⁠⁠www.courtneykocak.com/teaching⁠⁠⁠⁠</a>.</b><br /><br />The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/courtneykocak/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Instagram @courtneykocak</a> and <a href="https://bsky.app/profile/courtneykocak.bsky.social" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Bluesky @courtneykocak.bsky.social</a>. For more, check out her website <a href="https://courtneykocak.com/links" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">courtneykocak.com</a>.<br /><b></b><br /><b></b><b>Courtney is teaching some upcoming workshops you might be interested in:</b><a href="https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"></a><a href="https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-make-2026-your-best-writing-year-yet-manifest-your-writing-goals-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"></a><a href="https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"></a><br /><ul><li><a href="https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Edit &amp; Elevate: Revision Intensive</a>: https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak</li><li><a href="https://writingworkshops.com/products/the-multi-passionate-writers-life-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">The Multi-Passionate Writer's Life</a>: https://writingworkshops.com/products/the-multi-passionate-writers-life-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak</li><li><a href="https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminar" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">How to Build a “Platform” for Writers Who Shudder at the Thought</a>: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminar</li><li><a href="https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Start a Newsletter to Supercharge Your Platform, Network and Business</a>: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar</li><li><a href="https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Land Big Bylines by Writing for Columns</a>: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar</li><li><a href="https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocak" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">So You Want to Start a Podcast?</a>: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocak</li></ul>