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Explore the authentic OODA loop with Jon Becker on No Way Out Podcast – John Boyd's strategies for tactical leadership and decision making

Fresh off Mark “Moose” McGrath’s viral appearance on The Debrief (where the internet lost its mind over authentic OODA), we flip the script: Jon Becker — CEO of Aardvark Tactical and host of the top-rated tactical podcast The Debrief — comes to No Way Out for the highly requested return match.

Together with co-hosts Mark McGrath and Brian “Ponch” Rivera, Jon pulls back the curtain on what really happened when Moose flew to California and spent two days dismantling the “linear OODA loop” myth in front of Jon and a room full of California’s top tactical leaders.

In this episode you’ll discover:

• Why orientation — not speed — is what actually wins (and kills)
• How Jon’s entire worldview on Boyd shifted overnight
• The moment a room of alpha SWAT commanders realized they’d been teaching OODA wrong for decades
• Destruction & Creation explained simply (and why almost nobody talking about OODA has actually read it)
• Real-world examples: Blockbuster vs Netflix, Toyota Kaizen, AI thought bubbles, and why your team’s implicit biases are quietly sabotaging every decision
• The Socratic “no-slide-deck” method that turned skeptics into believers in under five hours

If you thought the Moose-on-The-Debrief episode was fire, this is the sequel you didn’t know you needed.

Jon Becker on Linkedin

John R. Boyd's Conceptual Spiral was originally titled No Way Out. In his own words: 

“There is no way out unless we can eliminate the features just cited. Since we don’t know how to do this, we must continue the whirl of reorientation…”

March 25, 2025

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Recent podcasts where you’ll also find Mark and Ponch:

The No Bell Podcast Episode 24
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