Do Russia or China represent a bigger risk to UK national security? Why are we underestimating the threat posed by cybercriminals? Who holds the real power - ministers or spies? Rory and Alastair are joined by Jeremy Fleming, formerly of GCHQ and MI5, to answer all this and more.  Join The Rest Is Politics Plus: Start your free trial at therestispolitics.com to unlock exclusive bonus content – including Rory and Alastair’s miniseries – plus ad-free listening, early access to episodes and live show tickets, an exclusive members’ newsletter, discounted book prices, and a private chatroom on Discord. Social Producer: Celine Charles Video Editor: Josh Smith Producer: Alice Horrell Senior Producer: Nicole Maslen Head of Politics: Tom Whiter Exec Producers: Tony Pastor + Jack Davenport Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices