In the Pit with Cody Schneider | Marketing | Growth | Startups

If you’re not getting cited by ChatGPT, your “AI SEO” strategy isn’t working, no matter what your dashboards say. Most of it is observability theater: dashboards, charts, synthetic prompts — and zero actual placement.In this episode, we chat with Shawn Schneider, founder of Eldil AI, about what actually determines whether your company shows up in ChatGPT answers. The short answer: LLMs don’t reward more content, clever prompts, or prettier dashboards. They reward a small set of trusted third-party sources — and most brands aren’t mentioned in any of them.Shawn breaks down why observability alone creates a false sense of progress, how to identify the specific citations that dominate your category, and how to turn that insight into real placements through outreach and negotiation. We also unpack why Google Search Console is still the best signal we have for AI-driven queries, how to prioritize the one citation that actually matters, and what the first 30–90 days can look like when you do this correctly.GuestShawn Schneider — founder of Eldil AI, a GEO / AI SEO platform focused on identifying and securing the citations LLMs rely on most; helps brands and agencies win visibility in ChatGPT by targeting the power-law sources that shape AI answers.Guest LinksLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shawn-schneider-61b2b5207/ Company Website: https://www.eldil.ai/What You’ll LearnWhy most GEO / AI SEO observability tools are meaningless without actual placements The only thing that reliably improves AI search visibility: citation placementsHow to use Google Search Console to surface AI fan-out queriesWhy synthetic prompt data is still unreliable (and what to trust instead)The power law of citations: why only 1–3 sources actually matterHow Eldil turns citation discovery into outreach and negotiated placementsWhat 30–90 days can look like when you secure the right citationWhich industries should invest heavily — and which should ignore this for nowWhy ChatGPT dominates referral traffic compared to other LLMsWhat happens when ads arrive inside AI search resultsTimestamps00:00 — GEO, AI SEO, AEO: noise vs. reality00:21 — Why observability tools don’t move the needle03:55 — Where GEO tools get their data (and why it’s messy)07:16 — Using Google Search Console as a prompt proxy09:40 — The three pillars: technical, content, authority12:07 — Citations as the dominant ranking lever13:07 — The power law: thousands of citations, one winner19:07 — How fast results actually show up20:39 — When building your own citation content makes sense30:41 — Which business models win with GEO37:11 — ChatGPT ads and the future of AI search41:32 — Where to find Shawn and closing thoughts Key Topics & Ideas1. Why dashboards feel good but don’t create outcomes.Most tools are essentially “Google Analytics for LLMs”ChatGPT referrals rise naturally as usage increasesCharts go up even if you do nothingWithout placements, observability is just vanity2. The three common approaches in the market today:Guessing prompts with LLMsClickstream data sourced from Chrome extensions and brokersSynthetic prompts without transparencyEldil uses Google Search Console + Analytics as the best available proxy for real intent.3. How to spot AI-generated fan-out queries:50+ character queriesHigh impressionsLow or zero clicksThese often represent LLMs expanding short prompts into long-form searches.4. The three pillars: Technical, Content, AuthorityTechnical — can an LLM crawl and understand your site?Content — does useful information exist?Authority — does anyone credible back it up?Authority is the multiplier most teams ignore.5. What actually shapes AI answers:Citations are not backlinks, they are semantic explanationsLLMs repeatedly return to the same trusted sourcesThird-party listicles and niche blogs dominate citation share6. The Power Law of Citations10k–15k citations may exist200–300 matter1–3 actually move the needleIf you’re not in those, content volume won’t save you.7. The real workflow:Identify high-value customer questionsExtract dominant citationsRank them by weightContact site ownersNegotiate placementMonitor AI visibility and referral trafficThis is where most tools stop — and where Eldil focuses.8. How many placements do you need?Surprisingly few.You don’t need 100 placementsYou need the right oneThen expand into adjacent verticalsThis is concentrated betting, not spray-and-pray SEO.9. Why GEO feels different from traditional SEO:You are inserting into sources that already rankChanges can show up in weeks, not yearsMeaningful referral growth often appears within ~60–90 days10. Who Should (and Shouldn’t) Do ThisBest fit:High-ACV B2B SaaSLong buying cyclesHigh-LTV e-commerce (supplements, skincare)ICPs that already live in ChatGPTIf your customers do not use LLMs yet, start elsewhere.11. Why ChatGPT is the main eventBased on Eldil’s data:ChatGPT referrals dwarf Perplexity and othersFor most companies, this is where focus belongsSmaller channels still matter for high-ticket sales12. What’s coming nextPaid placements inside LLMsOrganic plus paid becoming a one-two punchCitation inventory getting expensive fastThe window for cheap dominance will not last.SponsorToday’s episode is brought to you by Graphed – an AI data analyst & BI platform.With Graphed you can:Connect data like GA4, Facebook Ads, HubSpot, Google Ads, Search Console, AmplitudeBuild interactive dashboards just by chatting (no Looker Studio/Tableau learning curve)Use it as your ETL + data warehouse + BI layer in one placeAsk:“Build me a stacked bar chart of new users vs. all users over time from GA4”…and Graphed just builds it for you.👉 Get a free trial worth $500 plus a personal discovery call to set up your first dashboard: https://graphed.com/

Your brand doesn’t exist until it ranks on page one—and most founders have no idea how to make that happen.In this episode, we break down the exact playbook for getting a brand-new domain to show up in Google for your company name. After going through this process firsthand with Graphed.com, you’ll learn how to choose a rankable name, build the right backlinks, trigger branded search behavior, and use Google Ads to accelerate the whole process.If you're launching anything new, this is the tactical blueprint you wish you had earlier.What You’ll LearnWhy ranking for your brand name is the first real trust signal for any startupHow to pick a name and domain you can actually rank forThe “first 100 links” strategy that trains Google to recognize your brandSimple ways to generate branded search behavior across social and contentHow Google quietly tests your domain—and how to know when it’s happeningHow to use Google Search Ads to accelerate ranking and protect your brandWhy .com still matters more than any other TLDTimestamps00:00 — Why your new domain must rank for your own brand name00:31 — Why ranking for your brand name is a critical early trust signal01:03 — The rookie mistake founders make when picking a brand name01:13 — What ideal, non-competitive SERPs should look like01:35 — Graphed.com’s journey to finally ranking in position one01:45 — Overview of the process to teach Google your brand01:55 — Step 1: Build backlinks to your homepage03:29 — Step 2: Drive branded search with social posts & content04:21 — Step 3: Run Google Search Ads on your exact brand name05:45 — Why you should always buy the .com for your brand06:16 — Final thoughts + Graphed free trialKey Topics & Insights1. Ranking for Your Brand Name = Early-Stage TrustIf someone Googles your company and doesn’t find you, credibility collapses. Ranking for your brand name is one of the first—and easiest—trust signals to secure. Graphed.com took ~2 months to rank, but with this framework, it can happen in as little as 24–48 hours.2. How to Choose a Rankable NameAvoid names already used by active companiesLook for search results filled with noise, not competitorsIdeal: two words, few syllables, easy to spellAnd always, always buy the .com3. Build the First 100 Backlinks (Brand-Name Anchors Only)Your #1 job early is to teach Google what your company is.Do this by:Building backlinks to your homepageUsing your brand name as the anchor text (not keywords)These are foundational “identity” links that help Google map brand → domain.How to build them:Submit to software directoriesUse link submission servicesCold email companies for guest post swapsLayer PR on top later4. Trigger Branded Search BehaviorOnce Google sees your backlinks, you need humans to reinforce the signal:Search your brand nameClick your domainSpend time on the pageGoogle then learns:“When people search this name, this is the site they want.”You create this behavior through:Social postsNewslettersPodcast mentionsRepeated use of the brand everywhere5. How Google Tests Your DomainGoogle will quietly experiment by showing your domain for branded queries.You’ll see this in Search Console via:Rising impressionsIncreasing CTRSudden jumps in average positionThis is the moment Google “decides” you belong on page one.6. Accelerate Everything With Google Search AdsRun a brand campaign:Exact-match brand keywordMinimum bid: around $5Send traffic to homepageThis forces the association between brand name → your site, and accelerates your rise in organic search.Brand protection tips:Raise bids to block competitorsAdd sitelinks to take more SERP real estateOptional: multiple ad accounts (with caution)7. Why .com Still Beats Every Other DomainConsumers inherently trust .com more than .io, .co, .xyz, etc.It drives higher CTR and reduces friction in word-of-mouth.If the .com isn’t available, pick a new name—don’t settle.SponsorToday’s episode is brought to you by Graphed – an AI data analyst & BI platform.With Graphed you can:Connect data like GA4, Facebook Ads, HubSpot, Google Ads, Search Console, AmplitudeBuild interactive dashboards just by chatting (no Looker Studio/Tableau learning curve)Use it as your ETL + data warehouse + BI layer in one placeAsk:“Build me a stacked bar chart of new users vs. all users over time from GA4”…and Graphed just builds it for you.👉 Get a 14-day free trial with 10 seats for your team: https://graphed.com/

There’s a whole narrative right now that “vibe coding is a bubble” and all the MRR from AI-built apps isn’t real.In this episode, we chat with Jacob Klug, founder of the agency Creme, which specializes in building lovable MVPs on top of tools like Lovable and AI coding assistants. Jacob makes the case that most of the “AI apps are trash” discourse is really a skill issue, not a tool issue—and he breaks down the exact process his team uses to ship full platform-level apps in two-week sprints.We dig into how to scope and design software that doesn’t look AI-generated, how to think about personal operating systems vs. SaaS, why ideas are getting worse even as tools get better, and how creators and agencies can turn niche domain expertise into real products.If you’re an operator, marketer, or founder trying to figure out how to actually use AI coding tools (instead of just tweeting about them), this one’s for you.GuestJacob Klug — founder of Creme, an agency building “lovable MVPs” and full-stack products with Lovable + AI tools; helps founders, startups & enterprises ship production apps in weeks without sacrificing UX.Guest LinksWebsite: https://www.creme.digital/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacob-klug-37b254156/X (Twitter): https://x.com/JacobsklugWhat You’ll LearnWhy the “vibe coding is a bubble” take is mostly a skill and discipline problemHow Jacob’s agency ships full startup-grade products using Lovable and AIThe PRD-first formula they use before ever opening a builderHow to decide when to build vs. when to buy software in 2025Why we’re entering a wave of personal OSes and custom internal toolsHow to avoid shipping janky AI UI and make your app look intentionally designedThe mindset shift from “I could build anything” → “I will build this one specific thing”Why specializing in one AI tool (Lovable, Cursor, n8n, etc.) beats being “the AI guy”Tactical content and lead-gen plays for agencies on LinkedIn and YouTubeHow to learn AI tooling without getting paralyzed by the infinite possibilitiesTimestamps00:00 — Vibe coding: bubble or breakthrough?02:23 — Effective use of no-code tools05:23 — Stack and scoping for MVP development07:08 — Trends in personal software development10:33 — Personal projects: blood work analysis tool13:00 — Steps to start building custom software17:49 — Successful and unsuccessful product categories21:01 — Learning and adopting AI tools27:45 — Creator collaboration in software development32:14 — Lead generation strategies for AI-powered agenciesKey Topics & Ideas1. Bubble or Skill Issue?Why early no-code/AI apps looked jankyHow tools like Lovable increased automation from ~50% → ~85%The remaining 10–15% where real engineering still mattersMany failures come from non-devs skipping fundamentals2. How Creme Builds Lovable MVPsEvery project starts with a clear PRD (often drafted with ChatGPT)AI is used to tighten scope before buildingWhen Creme stays fully in Lovable vs. moving code to CursorUsing Lovable Cloud for hosting, database, and analytics3. Personal Operating Systems & Internal ToolsPeople replacing SaaS subscriptions with their own custom toolsIn a 20-person cohort, nearly everyone built workflow appsRise of the Personal OS: one system for life + workExample builds:Bloodwork tracker from PDF uploadsUnified messaging CRM (WhatsApp, Telegram, SMS, email)Automated 30-second sales briefings4. How to Learn AI Coding ToolsHalf the cohort hadn’t built anything before startingMain blocker: overwhelm, not skillLearn core concepts: frontend vs. backend, auth, roles, securityBuild daily reps, focus on the next thing you need—not “all of AI”5. Designing Apps That Don’t Look AI-GeneratedGood design is still the hardest and biggest edgeCreme process: build a /components library, define buttons/cards/inputs, assign stable IDsTools: Mobbin, Figma Community kits, 21st.devBest prompt: “Here’s a screenshot → copy this.”6. What Works in Product IdeasMost of Creme’s builds are full startup platforms, not micro-toolsAI makes shipping easier, but ideas are getting worse without depthReal advantage = domain expertise + niche problem + AI speed7. Creators x SoftwareCreators can now ship products without capitalJacob prefers retainers over equityAnalogy: Like creator brands—most fail, a few go huge8. Career Strategy: SpecializeFuture = verticalized expertise, not “AI generalists”Specialist lanes: Lovable, Cursor, n8n, automationBe the person for one tool + one market9. Content & Lead GenJacob's two rules for content: people are selfish and people are boredBuild content that teaches, sparks emotion, and creates curiosityPost ~5x/week, prioritize visual postsLong-term: YouTube deep dives for high-intent inboundSponsorToday’s episode is brought to you by Graphed – an AI data analyst & BI platform.With Graphed you can:Connect data like GA4, Facebook Ads, HubSpot, Google Ads, Search Console, AmplitudeBuild interactive dashboards just by chatting (no Looker Studio/Tableau learning curve)Use it as your ETL + data warehouse + BI layer in one placeAsk:“Build me a stacked bar chart of new users vs. all users over time from GA4”…and Graphed just builds it for you.👉 Get a 14-day free trial with 10 seats for your team: https://graphed.com/

Brought to you by Graphed.com - https://www.graphed.com/Graphed is your AI agent for marketing analytics. Connect your data and get insights in minutes. Build dashboards, reports, and chat. Learn more at the link.https://www.graphed.com/When you hit send on ChatGPT, your garbage six-word query gets enriched while the AI simultaneously launches 80 parallel searches, scraping pages 1-3 on Google faster than you can blink - and the proof is hiding in your Search Console with those weird 50+ character queries showing 96K impressions but only 14 clicks because AI is hoovering up content without clicking through. The arbitrage play is stupidly obvious: stop making more content and start getting mentioned in the existing high-ranking pieces AI already references - find what URLs ChatGPT cites for your space, reach out to those blog owners, and get included in their listicles because one mention there is worth more than 100 blog posts since you're suddenly part of every AI response in your category.5 Key Takeaways:AI enriches your terrible queries because you type like garbageEvery response triggers 80 parallel searches scraping Google's top resultsSearch Console shows AI scraping: high impressions, zero actual clicksStop making content, get mentioned in existing high-ranking pieces insteadOne listicle mention beats 100 blog posts for AI coverage

Think of page one as real estate—and claim as much of it as possible. Jesper Nissen breaks down modern parasite SEO: leveraging high-authority platforms (YouTube, Instagram, X/Twitter Articles, Perplexity/Qwen pages, etc.) to rank quickly for branded, local, and long-tail keywords. We cover indexing workflows, daisy-chain linking, exact-match domain plays, and the content + link velocity patterns that are working now.Guest Jesper Nissen — SEO educator, link-building practitioner, founder of SchemaWriter.ai and the cloud-stacking platform YACSS; speaker at POFU Live / SEO Rockstars; MSc in Physics (U. of Copenhagen). Guest Links Website: https://jespernissen.com/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@JesperNissenSEO X (Twitter): https://x.com/jespernissenseo?lang=enWhat You’ll LearnParasite SEO, 2025 edition: Why page-one results increasingly favor social UGC, news, and authority domains—and how to ride that DA for fast wins. Platforms that still rank: Jesper’s current leaderboard (e.g., Qwen, Perplexity) and what changed for Claude Artifacts.Local + long-tail focus: How to use Facebook/Instagram posts, YouTube videos & community posts, and X Articles to own branded and geo-keywords.Indexing workflow: Indexing services + social “daisy-chain” links to accelerate discovery.EMD plays: Exact-match domains (service+city and SaaS feature terms) and smart, steady link velocity patterns.Social → Search shift: Why Instagram and Facebook posts have started surfacing in Google (July 2025 change) and how to write posts to rank. Timestamps00:00 — Owning page one like “real estate”02:16 — Parasite SEO vs. traditional guest posts08:45 — Reddit’s link-out limits & why Jesper moved on14:58 — Claude Artifacts surge (and why it cooled)18:02 — What’s working now: Quen & Perplexity pages21:35 — Indexing flow: drip pings + social link bursts26:40 — Meta shift: FB/IG posts in Google (local SEO gold) 31:55 — Exact-match domains + link velocity math46:55 — Shorts as TOF magnets; long-form as sales letter51:40 — Priming YouTube with low-CPC X ads (global)Jesper’s Parasite SEO Playbook (Step-by-Step)Pick a target query (branded, local, or long-tail).Publish across high-DA surfaces:YouTube (video + Community post), X/Twitter (Articles), Instagram, Facebook Page, plus AI page builders (e.g., Quen, Perplexity).Front-load keywords in social posts (especially the first words of FB/IG captions for cleaner URLs/titles).Daisy-chain internal links: point your X Article to the IG/FB/YouTube/AI pages to aid indexing.Kick indexing via reputable ping/index services, then add lightweight social links to nudge crawl.Measure and iterate: keep winners, replace laggards, expand with adjacent long tails.Exact-Match Domain (EMD) Mini-FrameworkWhen to use: service+city rank-and-rent, or narrowly defined SaaS use-cases.Build: one-page lander, fast crawl path, 5–10 quality links/month early, layer socials & citations; avoid unnatural velocity spikes.Why it works: high topical alignment + clean intent matching. (Jesper’s background in cloud stacking/YACSS and SchemaWriter.ai complements this with structured data & internal “powerstack” patterns.) SponsorThis episode is brought to you by Graphed — the AI-native analytics platform that builds dashboards from plain English. Connect GA4, ads, CRM, GSC, and Sheets to get KPI boards in minutes. Learn more: https://graphed.com/