On this episode, Marc talks to two authors, Peter J. Woods and John Melillo. Peter is an assistant professor in learning sciences at the University of Nottingham in England, and John is an Associate Professor of English at the University of Arizona. They've both written academic books about noise: Woods' "Learning Through Noise" was published in early 2025, and Melillo's "The Poetics of Noise from Dada to Punk" was published in 2020.In the former, Woods examines noise as a potential vehicle for education, because "noise music as a distinctive musical genre relies on the production of unique learning ecologies and vice versa." And Melilo's book looks at 20th century poetry through the lens of noise, "constructing a literary history of noise through poetic sound and performance...and tracing how poets figure noise in the disfiguration of poetic voice."In our chat, Peter and John talk about how they approach something as abstract as noise through academic analysis, and how writing academic books is unique and challenging. Peter and John are both musicians themselves as well as show organizers, so they both bring more than just academic experience to the subject of noise.We hope you enjoy Marc's conversation with Peter J. Woods and John Melillo!