Kevin Sabet debates Matt Johnson on the Illusion of Consensus podcast with host Rav Arora, covering Trump’s psychedelic executive order, ibogaine, FDA approval, Right to Try, drug scheduling, and the future of psychedelic research. Sabet, a former White House drug policy advisor across the Clinton, Bush, and Obama administrations, argues for caution around psychedelics, marijuana policy, commercial incentives, and overstated medical claims. Johnson, a leading Johns Hopkins psychedelic researcher, responds on psilocybin studies, addiction treatment, depression, safety protocols, REMS, and why accelerated research may still follow the evidence. The discussion also covers Joe Rogan, RFK Jr., Marty Makary, Jay Bhattacharya, ketamine clinics, MDMA, MAPS, cannabis rescheduling, veteran suicide, and the risks of turning experimental drugs into public policy too quickly.Subscribe to Rav’s Substack to get episodes straight to your inbox:https://www.illusionconsensus.comChapters:0:00 - Intro2:05 - Sabet’s Objection to Psychedelics10:00 - Matt’s Disagreement with Sabet13:15 - Psychedelic Research Quality21:10 - Kevin’s Rebuttal24:00 - Was Joe Rogan Wrong On Ibogaine’s Efficacy32:50 - Ibogaine Safety Concerns40:50 - Could The Executive Order Go Too Far46:10 - Rescheduling and FDA Approval