Hear real life stories about meeting the Pope, briefing the Prime Minister, and creating legislation to safeguard future generations! As we settle in to 2026, it feels like we are stuck in a permanent state of Disorder:  Trump’s power grabs around the world, the timidity of Starmerism, and the lack of future-focused collective solutions to the world’s most pressing issues like AI regulation and climate. But… could another world be possible? Could something like mega-ordering spread throughout the world? If so, how do we get there? This week, in association with the New Books Network, Jason is joined by Sir Geoff Mulgan. Sir Geoff is one of the world’s leading thinkers on social change, innovation, and the future of democracy. He’s the founder of Demos, former head of the UK Prime Minister’s Strategy Unit, and the founding CEO of Nesta, the UK’s innovation agency. His latest book, ‘Another World Is Possible: How to Reignite Social and Political Imagination’ (Hurst), is a sweeping and provocative examination of how we might redesign our political and economic systems to meet the crises of the 21st century — and why doing so is both necessary and achievable. Jason and Geoff discuss why our leaders need to spend more time on long term thinking, and how ‘collective intelligence’ can help us address the world’s most pressing global challenges. They discuss how bland centrists like Starmer are actually quite unrealistic in their realism. Plus: why we must regain trust in experts, the need for more engineers and scientists in leadership positions, and the role religion could play in bringing about Mega Ordering. And as they Order the Disorder, Mulgan explains why a public ‘Right to Truth’ is key to saving democracy. To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/  Producer: George McDonagh Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/ Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow Show Notes Links: Get Geoff’s book, ‘Another World Is Possible: How to Reignite Social and Political Imagination’:  https://www.hurstpublishers.com/book/another-world-is-possible  For more on our partnership with the New Books Network visit: https://newbooksnetwork.com/category/up-partners/disorder  Read Geoff writing on future generations: https://tial.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/TIAL-Future-Generations-Mulgan-Bennett.docx.pdf  His pitch for rights to truth: https://www.geoffmulgan.com/blog/blog-post-title-two-p722w  Follow Geoff’s substack: https://geoffmulgan.substack.com/publish/posts/published Listen to George Monbiot on Disorder: https://pod.link/1706818264/episode/ZjU5MmVjOTYtZmFhZC0xMWVmLWFiZWUtODNlZjQ0YWYwZTgz   How Marco Rubio Went from “Little Marco” to Trump’s Foreign-Policy Enabler: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2026/01/19/marco-rubio-profile  Pls Join the Mega Orderers Club for ad-free listening and early release of the episodes, via this link: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices