Wallfacer Podcast

<p>Episode Description</p><p>Today’s guests are Arthur Breitman (co-founder of Tezos), Owen (Hasheur) Simonin (CEO of Meria), and Dmitriy Kovalevskiy (founder of Hanji). Recorded live at TezDev 2026 in Cannes, the panel covers why crypto yields remain structurally higher than traditional markets, the real obstacles keeping fintechs from offering DeFi yield, and whether tokenized commodities or tokenized stocks will drive the next wave of adoption.</p><p>Guest Links</p><p>* Arthur Breitman: <a target="_blank" href="https://twitter.com/ArthurB">https://twitter.com/ArthurB</a></p><p>* Tezos: https://tezos.com</p><p>* Etherlink: https://etherlink.com</p><p>* Owen Simonin (Hasheur): <a target="_blank" href="https://twitter.com/PowerHasheur">https://twitter.com/PowerHasheur</a></p><p>* Meria: https://meria.com</p><p>* Dmitriy Kovalevskiy: <a target="_blank" href="https://twitter.com/dmitrytez">https://twitter.com/dmitrytez</a></p><p>* Hanji: https://hanji.io</p><p>Host Links</p><p>* Ryan Rodenbaugh: <a target="_blank" href="https://twitter.com/ryanrodenbaugh">https://twitter.com/ryanrodenbaugh</a></p><p>* Vaults.fyi: https://vaults.fyi</p><p>Subscribe and share with friends:</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://www.wallfacer.io/podcast"><strong>https://www.wallfacer.io/podcast</strong></a> ← Apple, YouTube, Spotify, and more!</p><p>Timestamps</p><p>* <strong>[00:00]</strong> Introductions</p><p>* <strong>[00:33]</strong> What’s still holding fintechs back from offering DeFi yield</p><p>* <strong>[02:02]</strong> Why crypto yields are structurally higher than traditional markets</p><p>* <strong>[03:35]</strong> Two types of yield seekers: high yield chasers vs. reliability seekers</p><p>* <strong>[04:26]</strong> Celsius, Resolv, and the new wave of on-chain risk</p><p>* <strong>[07:08]</strong> Fixed-term lending: is there real demand beyond institutions?</p><p>* <strong>[09:28]</strong> RWAs in the earn stack: commodities vs. real estate vs. T-bills</p><p>* <strong>[12:06]</strong> Retail is attention-driven: the case for adding oil and macro assets</p><p>* <strong>[13:25]</strong> Collateral diversity and why it starts with user demand</p><p>* <strong>[14:27]</strong> The Robinhood of DeFi yield and Meria’s approach</p><p>* <strong>[16:07]</strong> Regulator conversations: custody, staking risk categories, and MiCA</p><p>* <strong>[19:46]</strong> Who are your users in two years? B2B2C, crypto natives, and new populations</p><p>* <strong>[23:53]</strong> Etherlink’s DeFi growth and vaults.fyi integration</p><p>* <strong>[24:04]</strong> Stablecoins as the onramp: why DEX trading will be easier than brokerage trading</p><p>* <strong>[25:25]</strong> Tokenized stocks: the NVIDIA problem and long-tail assets</p><p>* <strong>[29:23]</strong> Building the everything-app vs. staying specialized</p><p>* <strong>[31:30]</strong> What each panelist is most excited about in crypto right now</p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://wallfacerlabs.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">wallfacerlabs.substack.com</a>

<p>Today’s guest is Jeremiah Smith, co-founder and CEO of OpenCover. Jeremiah explains why less than 0.05% of DeFi TVL is insured, walks through how OpenCover’s new “covered vaults” primitive eliminates the upfront cost and manual renewal problems that killed DeFi insurance adoption, and breaks down the Nexus Mutual underwriting stack that backs it all. Ryan and Jeremiah also discuss the Resolv USR fallout, the xUSD claims payout, and why embedded risk transfer is becoming table stakes for any product offering DeFi yield.</p><p>Guest Links</p><p>* Jeremiah Smith: <a target="_blank" href="https://twitter.com/itsJeremiahS">https://twitter.com/itsJeremiahS</a></p><p>* OpenCover: <a target="_blank" href="https://opencover.com">https://opencover.com</a></p><p>* Nexus Mutual: <a target="_blank" href="https://nexusmutual.io">https://nexusmutual.io</a></p><p>Host Links</p><p>* Ryan Rodenbaugh: <a target="_blank" href="https://twitter.com/ryanrodenbaugh">https://twitter.com/ryanrodenbaugh</a></p><p>* Vaults.fyi: <a target="_blank" href="https://vaults.fyi/">https://vaults.fyi</a></p><p>Subscribe and share with friends:</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://www.wallfacer.io/podcast">https://www.wallfacer.io/podcast</a> ← Apple, YouTube, Spotify, and more!</p><p>Timestamps</p><p>* <strong>[00:00]</strong> Intro and OpenCover’s founding story</p><p>* <strong>[03:54]</strong> The “DeFi mullet” app that preceded OpenCover</p><p>* <strong>[06:40]</strong> Celsius, BlockFi, and why self-custody won</p><p>* <strong>[08:29]</strong> What OpenCover does and doesn’t underwrite</p><p>* <strong>[10:26]</strong> Yield compression and the challenge of scaling DeFi yield</p><p>* <strong>[13:01]</strong> How much DeFi capital is actually insured today</p><p>* <strong>[16:20]</strong> Why DeFi insurance adoption is so low</p><p>* <strong>[19:45]</strong> Tranching, TrueFi, and the structural shortage of conservative capital</p><p>* <strong>[22:14]</strong> OpenCover’s two verticals: protocol risk and transaction risk</p><p>* <strong>[26:01]</strong> How covered vaults work: stake, cover on, unstake, cover off</p><p>* <strong>[28:56]</strong> Premium streaming, rate dynamics, and whether insurance only works in high-rate environments</p><p>* <strong>[33:13]</strong> The Resolv USR fallout and contagion risk across Morpho vaults</p><p>* <strong>[34:46]</strong> The xUSD / Stream Finance claims payout, end to end</p><p>* <strong>[37:13]</strong> How underwriting and repricing works for Morpho vaults</p><p>* <strong>[40:00]</strong> Risk ratings vs. risk transfer: why insurance beats scores</p><p>* <strong>[43:37]</strong> The Nexus Mutual underwriting stack: syndicates, capacity, and claims</p><p>* <strong>[49:51]</strong> Who insures the insurers? Smart contract risk on the covered vault itself</p><p>* <strong>[51:13]</strong> What success looks like: embedded protection as the default</p><p></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://wallfacerlabs.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">wallfacerlabs.substack.com</a>

<p><strong>EPISODE DESCRIPTION:</strong></p><p>Today’s guest is Octave Mesnard, Head of Strategy and Consumer Products at Jumper Exchange. We discuss Jumper’s evolution from a thin cross-chain swap interface into a full on-chain consumer hub, the real challenges of building consumer DeFi products at the right time, and why Octave thinks the multi-chain future will consolidate around far fewer chains than anyone expected.</p><p><strong>GUEST LINKS:</strong></p><p>* Octave Mesnard: <a target="_blank" href="https://twitter.com/octavionotpunk">https://twitter.com/octavionotpunk</a></p><p>* Jumper Exchange: <a target="_blank" href="https://jumper.exchange/">https://jumper.exchange</a></p><p>* Jumper Exchange on X: <a target="_blank" href="https://x.com/JumperExchange">https://x.com/JumperExchange</a></p><p>* Jumper Earn: <a target="_blank" href="https://jumper.exchange/earn">https://jumper.exchange/earn</a></p><p></p><p><strong>Learn how Jumper leverages the vaults.fyi API: </strong><a target="_blank" href="https://docs.vaults.fyi/general/case-studies/jumper-earn"><strong>https://docs.vaults.fyi/general/case-studies/jumper-earn</strong></a></p><p></p><p><strong>HOST LINKS:</strong></p><p>* Ryan Rodenbaugh: <a target="_blank" href="https://twitter.com/ryanrodenbaugh">https://twitter.com/ryanrodenbaugh</a></p><p>* Vaults.fyi: <a target="_blank" href="https://app.vaults.fyi/">https://app.vaults.fyi/</a></p><p>* Build with our APIs: <a target="_blank" href="https://docs.vaults.fyi/">https://docs.vaults.fyi</a></p><p><strong>SUBSCRIBE:</strong></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wallfacer-podcast/id1709530326">Apple</a> </p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://open.spotify.com/show/2PNkM1JiIZCvvPLfdRYrb4">Spotify</a> </p><p>* YouTube: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.youtube.com/@WallfacerLabs">https://www.youtube.com/@WallfacerLabs</a></p><p>* Substack: <a target="_blank" href="https://wallfacerlabs.substack.com/s/podcast">https://wallfacerlabs.substack.com/s/podcast</a></p><p><strong>TIMESTAMPS:</strong></p><p><strong>[00:00] Introduction</strong></p><p><strong>[00:39] What was your initial foray into crypto?</strong></p><p><strong>[02:17] Are there any parallels between catastrophe bonds and crypto insurance?</strong></p><p><strong>[05:43] Tell us about Valha and Kook Exchange — what did you set out to solve?</strong></p><p><strong>[09:10] You had both an API and a consumer interface — was that intentional?</strong></p><p><strong>[12:05] Before joining LiFi, you were already working with them. How did that come about and how did you end up joining?</strong></p><p><strong>[13:34] When you joined, did you already have a vision for what you wanted Jumper to become?</strong></p><p><strong>[15:23] How do you think about where Jumper goes from here — browser, desktop, mobile?</strong></p><p><strong>[19:43] Does the Robinhood comparison resonate — one place where users manage everything?</strong></p><p><strong>[22:07] Who actually is the “normie” user in crypto?</strong></p><p><strong>[23:42] So Jumper started as a thin layer on LiFi’s stack — is Earn the attempt to thicken that?</strong></p><p><strong>[26:21] How have you thought about curation on Jumper Earn — what gets listed and what stays out?</strong></p><p><strong>[29:10] How do you think about risk scoring more broadly across DeFi?</strong></p><p><strong>[34:46] What are your concerns around RWAs coming into DeFi?</strong></p><p><strong>[37:28] How do you view the competitive landscape for swapping and bridging today?</strong></p><p><strong>[40:22] How did you think about working with vaults.fyi and how do you approach partnerships generally?</strong></p><p><strong>[42:01] Outside of your role at Jumper, what’s catching your attention in DeFi right now?</strong></p><p><strong>[44:22] You work in interoperability — do you have a contrarian view on the multi-chain future?</strong></p><p><strong>[48:58] What is the origin of </strong><a target="_blank" href="https://substack.com/profile/103728946-octavio-not-punk">Octavio Not Punk</a> </p><p></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://wallfacerlabs.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">wallfacerlabs.substack.com</a>

<p>Today’s guest is Sébastien Derivaux, co-founder of Steakhouse Financial. We discuss the evolution of real-world assets in DeFi from MakerDAO’s pioneering experiments to today’s institutional-grade credit infrastructure, the recent mF-ONE private credit controversy and what it reveals about risk management in tokenized assets, and how Steakhouse built a $1B+ vault curation business on Morpho. Seb shares unfiltered lessons from five years of bringing TradFi credit on-chain—from Société Générale’s groundbreaking tokenized bond deal to defaults to launching Grove as a Sky Star allocating $1B into CLO strategies.</p><p><strong>GUEST LINKS:</strong></p><p>* Sébastien Derivaux: <a target="_blank" href="https://twitter.com/SebVentures">https://twitter.com/SebVentures</a></p><p>* Steakhouse Financial: <a target="_blank" href="https://twitter.com/SteakhouseFi">https://twitter.com/SteakhouseFi</a></p><p>* Steakhouse Financial Website: https://steakhouse.financial</p><p><strong>HOST LINKS:</strong></p><p>* Ryan Rodenbaugh: <a target="_blank" href="https://twitter.com/ryanrodenbaugh">https://twitter.com/ryanrodenbaugh</a></p><p>* Vaults.fyi: https://vaults.fyi</p><p>* Vaults.fyi X: https://x.com/vaultsfyi</p><p>* Wallfacer X: https://x.com/wallfacerlabs</p><p><strong>SUBSCRIBE TO WALLFACER PODCAST AND SHARE WITH FRIENDS:</strong></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wallfacer-podcast/id1709530326">Apple</a> </p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://open.spotify.com/show/2PNkM1JiIZCvvPLfdRYrb4">Spotify</a> </p><p>* YouTube: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.youtube.com/@WallfacerLabs">https://www.youtube.com/@WallfacerLabs</a></p><p>* Substack: <a target="_blank" href="https://wallfacerlabs.substack.com/s/podcast">https://wallfacerlabs.substack.com/s/podcast</a></p><p><strong>TIMESTAMPS:</strong></p><p>* <strong>[00:00] Introduction & Background</strong></p><p>* <strong>[02:20] MakerDAO’s Early RWA Experiments: Société Générale, Centrifuge & Lessons Learned</strong></p><p>* <strong>[10:02] The Economics of RWAs: Cost Savings, Efficiency & What Actually Works On-Chain</strong></p><p>* <strong>[16:31] Why Crypto Needs RWAs: Yield Sources, Composability & Liquidity Challenges</strong></p><p>* <strong>[24:20] The mF-ONE Controversy: What Happened & How to Think About Private Credit Risk</strong></p><p>* <strong>[31:00] Commercial Break</strong></p><p>* <strong>[34:17] Risk Management Philosophy: Lenders vs. Investors & Diversification Strategy</strong></p><p>* <strong>[42:46] Comparing RWA Risk to Crypto Collateral & Evolution of Market Perception</strong></p><p>* <strong>[48:53] Building Steakhouse: Three Business Pillars & Becoming a Morpho Curator</strong></p><p>* <strong>[51:45] The Future of Curation: Market Structure, Competition & Traditional Finance Entry</strong></p><p>* <strong>[57:08] Vault Governance: Non-Custodial Design & How Morpho Captures Value</strong></p><p>* <strong>[59:58] Grove Protocol & Sky’s Star System: Decentralized Allocation Strategy</strong></p><p>* <strong>[1:04:33] Looking Ahead: Term Lending, Yield Curves & 10-Year Vision</strong></p><p></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://wallfacerlabs.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">wallfacerlabs.substack.com</a>

<p>Today's guest is Andrew Keys, co-founder and chairman of The Ether Machine and managing partner of DARMA Capital. We discuss why crypto treasury companies offer superior returns to ETFs through active yield generation, the structural limitations preventing ETFs from capturing Ethereum's full economic value, and Andrew's $654 million bet on Ethereum's future as the infrastructure for a decentralized internet. Andrew also shares lessons from a decade building Ethereum's institutional adoption and why clean corporate structures matter more than speed to market.</p><p><strong>GUEST LINKS:</strong></p><p>* Andrew Keys: <a target="_blank" href="https://x.com/AK_EtherMachine">https://x.com/AK_EtherMachine</a></p><p>* The Ether Machine: <a target="_blank" href="https://x.com/TheEtherMachine">https://x.com/TheEtherMachine</a></p><p>* DARMA Capital: <a target="_blank" href="https://x.com/darmacapital">https://x.com/darmacapital</a></p><p><strong>HOST LINKS:</strong></p><p>* Ryan Rodenbaugh: <a target="_blank" href="https://twitter.com/ryanrodenbaugh">https://twitter.com/ryanrodenbaugh</a></p><p>* Vaults.fyi: https://vaults.fyi</p><p><strong>SUBSCRIBE SECTION:</strong> <strong>Subscribe to Wallfacer Podcast and share with friends:</strong></p><p>* Apple/Spotify: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.wallfacer.io/podcast">https://www.wallfacer.io/podcast</a></p><p>* YouTube: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.youtube.com/@WallfacerLabs">https://www.youtube.com/@WallfacerLabs</a></p><p>* Substack: <a target="_blank" href="https://wallfacerlabs.substack.com/s/podcast">https://wallfacerlabs.substack.com/s/podcast</a></p><p><strong>TIMESTAMPS:</strong></p><p>* <strong>[00:18] Andrew's Background & Early Ethereum Journey</strong></p><p>* <strong>[05:39] ETFs vs Digital Asset Treasuries (DATs)</strong></p><p>* <strong>[08:15] North Star Metric: Ether Concentration Per Share</strong></p><p>* <strong>[09:54] Institutional Investor Education & Market Response</strong></p><p>* <strong>[10:25] Ethereum's Evolving Narrative & Stablecoin Product-Market Fit</strong></p><p>* <strong>[12:40] Ethereum's Market Dominance in High-Quality Liquid Assets</strong></p><p>* <strong>[16:57] DARMA Capital's Institutional Staking Business</strong></p><p>* <strong>[20:35] Why Go Public: Philosophy vs Opportunity</strong></p><p>* <strong>[22:46] Regulatory Environment & Long-Term Vision</strong></p><p>* <strong>[23:54] Clean Corporate Structure Strategy</strong></p><p>* <strong>[28:10] The Future of Altcoin DATs & Market Sustainability</strong></p><p>* <strong>[29:36] Lessons Learned: From Naive Decentralization to Meeting People Where They Are</strong></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://wallfacerlabs.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">wallfacerlabs.substack.com</a>