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<p>In this episode, Nicole welcomes back her very first repeat guest (🥳), Cleoniki Kesidis, copywriter extraordinaire and fellow funnel-skeptic. The two dig into the uncomfortable origins and metaphors behind the word <em>funnel</em>, asking why such a common marketing term so often feels…well, kinda icky.</p><p><br></p><p>What starts as a conversation about email sequences and sales paths becomes a beautifully winding journey into ethical marketing, customer autonomy, and a whole lot of metaphors.</p><p><br></p><p>Let’s talk about the words we use in the marketing systems we build.</p><p><br></p><p><strong>In this episode, you’ll discover…</strong></p><ul><li>Why “funnel” might not be the best metaphor—and a few alternates</li><li>What cows, tornadoes, and Temple Grandin have to do with marketing</li><li>The overlooked power of <em>sequencing</em> and why your audience deserves an exit</li></ul><ul><li>Why the best funnels feel more like ecosystems (and how to start designing yours)</li><li>What to do if you find yourself IN a funnel as a business owner (which you will, like, all the time)</li></ul><p><br></p><p><strong>A few quotes:</strong></p><ul><li><em>“It doesn’t feel like a friendly place to exist. It’s like you’re Dorothy and your house has been picked up and you’re being tossed around inside a tornado.”</em></li></ul><ul><li><em>“You want the sand to leave. You’re not trying to catch everybody.”</em></li></ul><ul><li><em>“When we talk about optimizing, it’s not about making every number as high as it can go.”</em></li></ul><ul><li><em>“When you’re an entrepreneur, you are always in a funnel.”</em></li></ul><p><br></p><p><strong>Connect with Cleo:</strong></p><ul><li><strong>Grab Cleo&#39;s free resource</strong>: <em>Everything You Need to Sell Your Evergreen Course Consistently</em> at <a href="https://cekcopywriting.com/" target="_blank" rel="ugc noopener noreferrer"><strong>cekcopywriting.com</strong></a></li><li><strong>LinkedIn: </strong><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/cleonikikesidis/" target="_blank" rel="ugc noopener noreferrer"><strong>linkedin.com/in/cleonikikesidis</strong></a><strong> (she’s so good here)</strong></li></ul><p><br></p><p><br></p><p>Curious about ethical sales and lead magnets that don’t feel gross? Check out Nicole’s newsletter for prompts and ideas: <strong>nicolecopy.com/prompts</strong></p>

It's All Poetry

Nicole Cloutier

This “funnel” has holes — marketing, metaphors, and consent (with Cleoniki Kesidis)

MAR 27, 202549 MIN
It's All Poetry

This “funnel” has holes — marketing, metaphors, and consent (with Cleoniki Kesidis)

MAR 27, 202549 MIN

Description

<p>In this episode, Nicole welcomes back her very first repeat guest (🥳), Cleoniki Kesidis, copywriter extraordinaire and fellow funnel-skeptic. The two dig into the uncomfortable origins and metaphors behind the word <em>funnel</em>, asking why such a common marketing term so often feels…well, kinda icky.</p><p><br></p><p>What starts as a conversation about email sequences and sales paths becomes a beautifully winding journey into ethical marketing, customer autonomy, and a whole lot of metaphors.</p><p><br></p><p>Let’s talk about the words we use in the marketing systems we build.</p><p><br></p><p><strong>In this episode, you’ll discover…</strong></p><ul><li>Why “funnel” might not be the best metaphor—and a few alternates</li><li>What cows, tornadoes, and Temple Grandin have to do with marketing</li><li>The overlooked power of <em>sequencing</em> and why your audience deserves an exit</li></ul><ul><li>Why the best funnels feel more like ecosystems (and how to start designing yours)</li><li>What to do if you find yourself IN a funnel as a business owner (which you will, like, all the time)</li></ul><p><br></p><p><strong>A few quotes:</strong></p><ul><li><em>“It doesn’t feel like a friendly place to exist. It’s like you’re Dorothy and your house has been picked up and you’re being tossed around inside a tornado.”</em></li></ul><ul><li><em>“You want the sand to leave. You’re not trying to catch everybody.”</em></li></ul><ul><li><em>“When we talk about optimizing, it’s not about making every number as high as it can go.”</em></li></ul><ul><li><em>“When you’re an entrepreneur, you are always in a funnel.”</em></li></ul><p><br></p><p><strong>Connect with Cleo:</strong></p><ul><li><strong>Grab Cleo&#39;s free resource</strong>: <em>Everything You Need to Sell Your Evergreen Course Consistently</em> at <a href="https://cekcopywriting.com/" target="_blank" rel="ugc noopener noreferrer"><strong>cekcopywriting.com</strong></a></li><li><strong>LinkedIn: </strong><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/cleonikikesidis/" target="_blank" rel="ugc noopener noreferrer"><strong>linkedin.com/in/cleonikikesidis</strong></a><strong> (she’s so good here)</strong></li></ul><p><br></p><p><br></p><p>Curious about ethical sales and lead magnets that don’t feel gross? Check out Nicole’s newsletter for prompts and ideas: <strong>nicolecopy.com/prompts</strong></p>